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<blockquote data-quote="chaochou" data-source="post: 5636786" data-attributes="member: 99817">I understand the argument that combat can be a means to an end rather than the end itself. I agreee, but I think this is a choice rather than a description of the mechanical elements of D&amp;D.For example, character creation: I can build a mechanically playable D&amp;D character with no idea of their beliefs or goals or drives and no connections to the world they inhabit. IIRC beliefs and motivations are about a 2 para afterthought in the PHB (with no mechanical support).I can't do that in Burning Wheel - beliefs, instincts and traits are a vital part of character creation and play. I can't create a FATE character without aspects, or without a story of how I came to be where I am. Writing situation and beliefs and relationships and past interactions with other characters is character creation. It's not extra.Say I want to play the story of a man trying to protect his mum from his brutal, drunken stepfather. In Burning Wheel I write the belief 'Protect mum from brutal, drunken stepfather'. I've created that as a theme and its now flagged to the GM as something central to play. I get xp for pursuing that belief (but I'd get no xp for killing an army of dragons).In Heroquest I write Relationship: Mum 25. Hatred: Drunken Stepfather 17. It's flagged as themetically important to the GM. Mechanically I can use those relationship to augment actions which aid my mum or hinder my stepfather.It's not that this can't be added to D&amp;D, but it's not right&nbsp; there baked in. IMO The only stakes D&amp;D supports mechanically are life / death (HP) and that makes 'the game as written' about combat.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="chaochou, post: 5636786, member: 99817"] I understand the argument that combat can be a means to an end rather than the end itself. I agreee, but I think this is a choice rather than a description of the mechanical elements of D&D. For example, character creation: I can build a mechanically playable D&D character with no idea of their beliefs or goals or drives and no connections to the world they inhabit. IIRC beliefs and motivations are about a 2 para afterthought in the PHB (with no mechanical support). I can't do that in Burning Wheel - beliefs, instincts and traits are a vital part of character creation and play. I can't create a FATE character without aspects, or without a story of how I came to be where I am. Writing situation and beliefs and relationships and past interactions with other characters [I][B]is[/B][/I] character creation. It's not extra. Say I want to play the story of a man trying to protect his mum from his brutal, drunken stepfather. In Burning Wheel I write the belief 'Protect mum from brutal, drunken stepfather'. I've created that as a theme and its now flagged to the GM as something central to play. I get xp for pursuing that belief (but I'd get no xp for killing an army of dragons). In Heroquest I write Relationship: Mum 25. Hatred: Drunken Stepfather 17. It's flagged as themetically important to the GM. Mechanically I can use those relationship to augment actions which aid my mum or hinder my stepfather. It's not that this can't be added to D&D, but it's not right there baked in. IMO The only stakes D&D supports mechanically are life / death (HP) and that makes 'the game as written' about combat. [/QUOTE]

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