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<blockquote data-quote="CuRoi" data-source="post: 5653606" data-attributes="member: 98032"><p>This seems contradictory. So a DM doesn't tell a story as you say. Yet, a DM gets players from point A to point B in an adventure? Ok, just so I'm clear (as I'm having all kinds of trouble lately understanding things, seriously bear with me here) who defines point A and point B in the adventure? In fact, who defines the "adventure"?</p><p> </p><p>If you say "the players" to the above, well... If you haven't defined the adventure let's say, and the players have, what exactly are you doing? Sure, players can choose whether to go to "point A" or not but presumably you are the one that knows what is really at "point A". (Though I suppose you could be using randomization for all the setting elements...)</p><p> </p><p>So, if you do in fact run a game where the players define all the story and plot elements and wander through a world entirely of <em>their</em> own creation, then yes, you as DM are just the head dice roller as it were. Or, I suppose you could be running random dungeons, random NPCs, random city generators, etc. etc. leaving everything to dice rolls. I suppose then you would also be removed from a position of "storyteller".</p><p> </p><p>For me, I run a fairly open campaign but I'm a bit skeptical of the numerous completely "hands off" DMing claims. I'm willing to bet more DMs take control of story, plot and campaign direction than they admit. I let my players wander anywhere they want in the chosen setting, but I'm the guy that really knows what is at "Point A" and "Point B". I'm the guy that tells them what happens at those points and lets them know how their actions play out at said points. To me, this is part of being the one responsible for the story. </p><p> </p><p>Also, in my games, there are plenty of times where events they can't control may sweep them up (I don't run high powered Epic level campaigns so there's always something out there more powerful than the PCs), or things they want to do just aren't possible. Call me a meanie, but I make those calls <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> By making those calls, I am the prime "Storyteller".</p><p> </p><p>Not sure why it is presumably a dirty word to admit to telling a story.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Yes, you are correct, anyone can play the game in anyway they wish. Though, if we settle there, having any discussion about the game becomes immaterial. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p> </p><p>GM perhaps, DM I'm not sure I agree. I know it is splitting hairs, but the thread specified DnD. On the whole, DnD seems a poor platform for a completely collaborative story-telling game as typically, the DM makes many decisions regarding advancement, treasure placement, etc. and a whole host of things that tend to be limiters to a player's ability to assume the role of "head story teller". If you want true collaborative storytelling something more like Fate or Risus is a better platform. Can you make DnD do it? Sure, but just I don't think as many people are doing it as they claim to be. </p><p> </p><p>I get the feeling it's just popular to SAY you aren't a storyteller for whatever reason. I've ascribed to the "sandbox" crowd in the past here but there seems to be this interesting move to completely divorce DM responsibilty for the plot which I find a bit over the top.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CuRoi, post: 5653606, member: 98032"] This seems contradictory. So a DM doesn't tell a story as you say. Yet, a DM gets players from point A to point B in an adventure? Ok, just so I'm clear (as I'm having all kinds of trouble lately understanding things, seriously bear with me here) who defines point A and point B in the adventure? In fact, who defines the "adventure"? If you say "the players" to the above, well... If you haven't defined the adventure let's say, and the players have, what exactly are you doing? Sure, players can choose whether to go to "point A" or not but presumably you are the one that knows what is really at "point A". (Though I suppose you could be using randomization for all the setting elements...) So, if you do in fact run a game where the players define all the story and plot elements and wander through a world entirely of [I]their[/I] own creation, then yes, you as DM are just the head dice roller as it were. Or, I suppose you could be running random dungeons, random NPCs, random city generators, etc. etc. leaving everything to dice rolls. I suppose then you would also be removed from a position of "storyteller". For me, I run a fairly open campaign but I'm a bit skeptical of the numerous completely "hands off" DMing claims. I'm willing to bet more DMs take control of story, plot and campaign direction than they admit. I let my players wander anywhere they want in the chosen setting, but I'm the guy that really knows what is at "Point A" and "Point B". I'm the guy that tells them what happens at those points and lets them know how their actions play out at said points. To me, this is part of being the one responsible for the story. Also, in my games, there are plenty of times where events they can't control may sweep them up (I don't run high powered Epic level campaigns so there's always something out there more powerful than the PCs), or things they want to do just aren't possible. Call me a meanie, but I make those calls :) By making those calls, I am the prime "Storyteller". Not sure why it is presumably a dirty word to admit to telling a story. Yes, you are correct, anyone can play the game in anyway they wish. Though, if we settle there, having any discussion about the game becomes immaterial. ;) GM perhaps, DM I'm not sure I agree. I know it is splitting hairs, but the thread specified DnD. On the whole, DnD seems a poor platform for a completely collaborative story-telling game as typically, the DM makes many decisions regarding advancement, treasure placement, etc. and a whole host of things that tend to be limiters to a player's ability to assume the role of "head story teller". If you want true collaborative storytelling something more like Fate or Risus is a better platform. Can you make DnD do it? Sure, but just I don't think as many people are doing it as they claim to be. I get the feeling it's just popular to SAY you aren't a storyteller for whatever reason. I've ascribed to the "sandbox" crowd in the past here but there seems to be this interesting move to completely divorce DM responsibilty for the plot which I find a bit over the top. [/QUOTE]
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