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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Janx" data-source="post: 5656042" data-attributes="member: 8835">had a busy day yesterday, looks like y'all did fine without me....Pem's right, that certain rule sets can more rigidly guide the outcomes, thus reducing DM fickleness (or whatever its called).  This was the same concept that Combat kind of has.  While there's wigggle room there, as well,  it's pretty concrete that if I hit you and you are out of HP, you are dead.  The outcome is built into the mechanic mostly.Other stuff, not as much.  if you commit a crime, the GM decides if anybody saw it that you didn't know about.  There's not really a dice roll for that, I just made it up.As always, this comes down to GM trust and GM delivering a product that his players want.BotE mentioned the tail of the GM capturing, not executing and the pissy player.  That's a great example.  It takes EW's "you didn't let me fail" and demonstrates in this case, the player didn't trust the GM, and the GM's chosen result was both rational and instigated a lot more game material than a simple TPK would have.This example seems to be one where 'rules' don't cover.  The NPC either kills the party or something else happens.  it was a judgement call.This judgement call is where player opinion seems to clash with GM opinion.  Barring cases of crappy GMing, is the consensus:The GM has a right to decide what he feels makes sense as an outcomeIt is advised that the GM consider what happens next from the NPCs perspective, rather than a narrator's perspective (though for a story-driven GM, perhaps a merged perspective would be fine).If these are true, then "you didn't let me fail" as an argument may be invalidated.  The GM is trying to run a good game, and he decides what he decides.  In a way, he decides which failures are show stoppers.Coming back to original thread title, "you didn't let me fail" is a charge that the DM is running an illusion.  If the consensus says that's BS because of the GMs rights to do stuff outlined above, then there is no such thing as an "illusion" in the context of basic what happens next decisions.</blockquote>

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