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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SHARK" data-source="post: 349406" data-attributes="member: 1131">Greetings!I was reading the Harn Forums for awhile, and the discussion evolved to various points, some of which were that D&D has "childish ideas" and that people who play D&D are "obsessed with childish, immature concepts and ideas" as Kaptain Kantrip notes. It got me to thinking--are there childish, immature concepts that people who play D&D embrace? Are these concepts something that I am unaware of? Have any of you found this to be true? If so--what exactly are the childish, immature concepts? If you can think of any--and explain them--how might we, or myself, as a D&D player, go about correcting these childish, immature concepts?Has the game that so many of us love, and have been playing for upwards of 20 years or more, somehow devolved into jello for Barney? A gibbering game for children?I certainly don't want childish, immature concepts to ruin my game. Do many of you have any people in your groups that feel this way, or have identified these kinds of concepts? My own group has never really complained about any of these things, so maybe I'm really in the dark?Has D&D reputation for being a game of wonder and imagination derailed into something for children?What do you think?I supply the following excerpts for context, concerning some potential problems with D&D.I'd be very interested in what some of you think about this.Semper Fidelis,SHARKPosted by Sir Eldaen:____________________________________________________Quote:"Um... yes, then my definition of "low-fantasy" is a little different. What I mean is: there is more than sufficient fantasy in both Hârn and LOTR, isn't it? Wouldn't that justify the term "med fantasy"? And if the fantasy in LOTR and Hârn is sufficient, credible, reasonable and sophisticated, doesn't that lead to the conclusion that adding more fantasy elements to this working system tends to make the whole thing ... silly? In my opinion, it surely does. I know this is beginning to get a flame, but I'm just so sick of having to justify against those high fantasy crowds! Why justify when it's so very clear that one is playing the supreme system/world/whatever? Why even discuss with people who defend childish ideas? Sorry, but that makes me really p...ed off!"____________________________________________________End Quote.Posted by Patrick S&S____________________________________________________Quote:"I left the EnWorld forum and will never set my foot there again after the last posts by some of the members there. Never in my whole life on the web have I seen such flames being thrown at people because they do not like the D&D rules. I understand that some of the members there are unhappy with the "childish" and "immature" comments that some here on these boards make but the last entries they added were rude and quite untrue. I really feel sorry for that Mobius guy (who are you on these forums?) and the replies he had to defend himself from. I am beginning to think that they are indeed childish..."____________________________________________________End Quote.Posted by Agrakanfury/Kaptain Kantrip____________________________________________________Quote:"You're only as good as your last post, I guess.  I did forget you had previously supported my position. Sorry about that. However, I do feel that D&D (and a fair number of its adherants) are obsessed with childish, immature ideas and concepts. I don't apologize for that, because I feel it's true and I've always felt this way after 1st edition (and I grew up)--this is long before I found Harn that I felt like this. I am constantly frustrated by the lack of mature, realistic thought in many d20/D&D products which treat their audience like morons who will gobble up any old retarded lameness. WotC is just as guilty (if not more so) as some of the third party publishers. Harn doesn't do this. Every Harn product is quality, even if I can't use everything in it. There is no easy way for me to say this, so I just spit it out and call it as I see it. I can't aplogize for my belief, I can only say I'm sorry if you don't see the validity of my position in this matter."____________________________________________________End Quote.</blockquote>

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