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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 349551" data-attributes="member: 2205">Eh, the thread's been civil.  As a former ex-D&D player who came back like a prodigal son with the advent of 3e, I can somewhat understand their point of view.However, I think it's taint by association more than anything else.  I played D&D with a bunch of immature people, especially in junior high.  I even thought it was immature and unsatisfying at that time much more so today.  The fact that the system wasn't very flexible in the past, making it more difficult to change it without radically overhauling the ruleset -- just to get a different flavor -- only compounded the problem.Therefore, for a long time, I associated D&D with immature gamers, not because the game was immature, but because the gamers I knew who played it were.  D&D, which still has a reputation as a hack-n-slash, beer-n-pretzels game, can still come across this way, but again, it's not necessarily the game itself (despite it's "back to the dungeon" mentality) that stipulates this "immaturity" it's just the association of a few self-proclaimed high-brow gamers who paint it with that brush.That said, there are still a number of "sacred cows" (sorry CC, as you always turn up when I mention them!) that are still unsatisfying to me in a number of ways.  Archetypical classes (although at least they are now very flexible and easily modified, so this doesn't cause me much trouble), levelling, magic weapons and wealth being built into the inter-class balancing -- but I don't know that I can truly say these are immature items, even though it's things like this that are often classified as immature.</blockquote>

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