Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Is D&D/D20 Childish and Immature?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Feliath" data-source="post: 352756" data-attributes="member: 3008"><p><strong>Talking power (long-winded)</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>OK, so this right here is where he shoots himself in the foot with such large-caliber ammo as to blow off everything beneath the neck. I don't really think there needs to be <em>any</em> debate about something written by someone this elitist. So, as a disclaimer, everything below this point is basically an exercise in perspectives.</p><p></p><p>Oh, wait, one more thing. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite9" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":eek:" /> I need to point out specifically, I think, in the names of fairness and clarity, that I don't play the way one might think from the gunk below. I just want to point out a reverse perspective on a commonly discussed argument.</p><p></p><p>So, here goes:</p><p></p><p>The idea that D&D is immature because it allows great levels of power is just absurd.</p><p></p><p>I defy Eldaen (or anyone else who combines cultural elitism and the above opinion) to call Ovid or Homer - or even Shakespeare; we'll get to that - immature. </p><p>Let's look at just one of the things in the the <em>Iliad</em>, shall we? OK, here's Ajax. He's <em>invulnerable</em> - with the exception of one heel. This would definitely be considered munchkin in an RPG, but I doubt that's what people see in the Iliad. The invulnerability is there to make a point, to help tell a story. (About hubris, BTW.) </p><p>The entire Iliad is <em><u>crammed full</u></em> of what equates to high-level heroes. Thing is, it <em>doesn't matter</em> - the plot is driven by the characters' desires and ambitions.</p><p></p><p>Then there's the Odyssey, which is an even better example because, in essence, the whole thing is a long, boat-y D&D campaign centered around this incredibly high-level hero who gets magic items, fights one-eyed giants and sorceresses, and so forth. Again, immature? Anybody?</p><p></p><p>From Shakespeare, we have two nice examples. The first one's <em>The Tempest</em>. It nicely shows how the equivalent of high-level wizardry may not only be workable in a good plot, but absolutely imperative. I would certainly equate Prospero to a high-level wizard or sorceror.</p><p></p><p>The other one is a comment on Tallarn's excellent point about <em>Fight Club</em>.</p><p></p><p><em>Hamlet</em>.</p><p>Because when you look at the surface of it, it's actually this revenge-based action-play with fights, poisonings, suicide, ghosts, thingumbob <em>and</em> his uncle - I mean, there's, what, 7 deaths on stage? 9? - but it also happens to be considered one of the deepest plays in literature (except by Tolstoy, who considered it unreadable <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> ). </p><p></p><p>Conclusion: <strong> One does not preclude the other. Sometimes, the one <em>necessitates</em> the other. </strong></p><p></p><p>Finally, it should be noted that this is written by someone who considers <em>Peter Pan</em> to be the pinnacle of world literature. Go figure. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>/Feliath - much bored, also European, need sleep</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Feliath, post: 352756, member: 3008"] [b]Talking power (long-winded)[/b] OK, so this right here is where he shoots himself in the foot with such large-caliber ammo as to blow off everything beneath the neck. I don't really think there needs to be [I]any[/I] debate about something written by someone this elitist. So, as a disclaimer, everything below this point is basically an exercise in perspectives. Oh, wait, one more thing. :o I need to point out specifically, I think, in the names of fairness and clarity, that I don't play the way one might think from the gunk below. I just want to point out a reverse perspective on a commonly discussed argument. So, here goes: The idea that D&D is immature because it allows great levels of power is just absurd. I defy Eldaen (or anyone else who combines cultural elitism and the above opinion) to call Ovid or Homer - or even Shakespeare; we'll get to that - immature. Let's look at just one of the things in the the [I]Iliad[/I], shall we? OK, here's Ajax. He's [I]invulnerable[/I] - with the exception of one heel. This would definitely be considered munchkin in an RPG, but I doubt that's what people see in the Iliad. The invulnerability is there to make a point, to help tell a story. (About hubris, BTW.) The entire Iliad is [I][U]crammed full[/U][/I] of what equates to high-level heroes. Thing is, it [I]doesn't matter[/I] - the plot is driven by the characters' desires and ambitions. Then there's the Odyssey, which is an even better example because, in essence, the whole thing is a long, boat-y D&D campaign centered around this incredibly high-level hero who gets magic items, fights one-eyed giants and sorceresses, and so forth. Again, immature? Anybody? From Shakespeare, we have two nice examples. The first one's [I]The Tempest[/I]. It nicely shows how the equivalent of high-level wizardry may not only be workable in a good plot, but absolutely imperative. I would certainly equate Prospero to a high-level wizard or sorceror. The other one is a comment on Tallarn's excellent point about [I]Fight Club[/I]. [I]Hamlet[/I]. Because when you look at the surface of it, it's actually this revenge-based action-play with fights, poisonings, suicide, ghosts, thingumbob [I]and[/I] his uncle - I mean, there's, what, 7 deaths on stage? 9? - but it also happens to be considered one of the deepest plays in literature (except by Tolstoy, who considered it unreadable ;) ). Conclusion: [B] One does not preclude the other. Sometimes, the one [I]necessitates[/I] the other. [/B] Finally, it should be noted that this is written by someone who considers [I]Peter Pan[/I] to be the pinnacle of world literature. Go figure. :D /Feliath - much bored, also European, need sleep [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Is D&D/D20 Childish and Immature?
Top