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Message: <blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 358172" data-attributes="member: 463">As are the 3e versions.No, lame-brain hormone-charged, can't-get-any teenagers want naked women.  Adults are not sissies because they are mature enough to not be gratuitous about sex or violence.  This point right here makes the rest of your argument laughable, as you have the temerity make incredibly immature claims in your attempt to "prove" how D&D is immature.I don't much like the Gor books, I find them neurotic and repetitive, but I know (online) women in their '30s and '40s who are big fans, it's not just male teenagers who like that stuff.In general, naked women, demonic sacrifices, gore etc are staples of lurid low-fantasy works and much other sword & sorcery - including feminist authors like Moorcock, for instance - but as has been said there's lots of other classic fantasy without these tropes - Le Guin and Tolkien are good examples.  I don't think Le Guin & Tolkien are 'more mature' than RE Howard or Leiber, though.  If anything their worlds are more pre-adolescently childlike (like CS Lewis), while the sword & sorcery authors are adolescent in tone.  But it should be possible to produce D&D product and run D&D campaigns in either vein.</blockquote>