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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SurgicalSteel" data-source="post: 358252" data-attributes="member: 5611">Well, this is definitely a complex subject.Let me begin by discussion something that occurred in middle/high school.I was walking home with my gaming buddies one afternoon when the subject of technology came up.One of them remarked how cool it would be to kill a dragon with an Apache attack helicopter, and another readily agreed.I was dumbfounded.It sounded so asinine.What was the point? I mean, why not use a nuke if thats what it is about?Same difference....I noted later that they were into things that I wasn't, namely, comic books, with superheroes.There is an unavoidable commonality there.I think that is exactly what the "Harn people" are talking about.How many twinks do you find in Harn?I would bet none.While there is something to their point, I think that snobbishness does show through.Personally, I think there is a VAST gulf between power-wish-fulfillment, and RPGing in general.Nearly every kind of entertainment involves creating and resolving tension.Sports ==> who will win? ==> someone winsMovies ==> there is a conflict ==> someone winsSpy Novels => will the spy be discovered ==> spy survivesetc...Interactive storytelling (AKA roleplaying) is no different.So, to the original point, is D&D immature, or, better said, does it foster/promote/nurture immaturity?Well, do movies?I would say, sometimes, yes.Same is true for any entertainment, depending on how it is expressed.So does D&D promote this specifically relative to RPGs in general?I would say yes, but that superhero games are even worse.Some of D&D's problems?==> HPs, great cleave, whirlwind attackHPs are an artifact of D&D's wargaming roots, and should have been dropped long ago.The other 2 are peculiar to 3rd Ed.They remind me of Diablo 2, another pointless game that attracts exactly the kind of immature people Harn players have such issues with apparently.One other thing bears noting.The snobbishness may be a misplaced expression of resentment.I have been on the net since before the WWW, and there is no doubt that the biggest A-holes comes from the AD&D/D&D side.Now I play more than a dozen RPGs, including AD&D 1st and D&D 3E, and I have to say many D&D 3E only people come across as a kind of "gaming bigot".I don't think this has anything to do with the ruleset whatsoever, it comes from being the biggest RPG around, and the fact that many D&D players have serious issues, and hide behind a computer screen to attack others in ways they would never have the courage to do in real life.This does relate to D&D being an entry game though I think.People playing other systems tend to be older, and thus more mature (there it is again).</blockquote>

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