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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Belen" data-source="post: 1579241" data-attributes="member: 1405">The rules have definitely become too complicated.  I think it has caused problems.  I know that I have experienced a lot of trouble with the rules and how they have changed my game and my group.  The game has changed into little more than a tactical wargame.  When I have expressed my concerns over how the rules have changed the group, people begin to question why I play DnD, as if a tactical wargame is the only way to play the game.For me, it seems like 3e has forced a hardline division between gamers.  My group has divided along the lines of rules/tactical oriented versus roleplay/story oriented.  No balance exists between the two sides.  The rules oriented players dominate the game as they dominate combat.  If the roleplay oriented gamers want to compete, then they are forced to delve deep into the rules or get left behind.  Game rulings cannot be made on the fly.  If a GM does not have ADVANCED rules knowledge, then the players do not trust him.  You are fair if you use the correct rule, while unfair and arbitrary if you do not take the time to find the correct rule.Rules discussion dominates our game.  If not discussing a tactical problem, then people sit and discuss "builds" etc even if the GM is trying to keep the game flowing.  The half of the group that does not have advanced knowledge of the rules usually remains quiet during rules discussion and if someone does speak up or disagree with something, then a long speech takes place detailing why this rule makes things balanced and how it integrates into the game.There is no middle ground.  There is no compromise.  You either "build" "optimal" characters or spend combat being ineffective.  Once this annoys people with good builds, then they begin making suggestions about how to build the character better.  Choices that make sense for the character but are less than optimal are met with disdain.Now, I truly enjoy the time spent with my friends.  I would not trade that experience for anything.  Some of them simplely enjoy the rules and work to gain an optimal knowledge and I do not blame them for it.This is the fault of 3e and how it is PRESENTED.  The three core books would not be so bad if every book that followed did not enforce the idea that rules are god.  If a book such as Complete Warrior did not contain so many class and feats, and had more balance between crunch and roleplay, then there would be some argument that crunch should not be the focus of the game.  WOTC has made it understood that crunch is the method by which the game is played.  They have made it understood that the players should EXPECT a game of strict rules that leave the GM little more than a mediator or servant.  Their focus is on players and what they can continually give players to sell books.  Player empowerment, GM restriction.Are the rules too complicated?  Hell YES.Barrier to entry? YesWhy? Too many rules and how the heck can a group of kids want to learn the game since not one of them would want to GM for the game.  Motto: Third Edition, everyone wants to play, no one wants to GM.Cathartic Rage ended.End of Line.</blockquote>

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