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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7733562" data-attributes="member: 42582">I would really start with framing and consequences first, because that's how combat works: GMs (typically) frame combat so that all the PCs get drawn in; and there are consequences for all players in combat (ie their PCs take hp loss). If you are playing the weakling mage, and choose not to roll any attacks, that doesn't stop the GM declaring attacks against you that sap your hit points.So what is going on that players who never have their PCs say anything, and leave it all to the &quot;face&quot;, never suffer consequences? Never have anyone try and speak to them? Ask them their opinion on the matter? Never develop reputatios as buffoons? Etc.Once the framing and consequence issue has been indentified, then it makes sense to look at a system for integrating the multiple checks of multiple players into a single resolution of the encounter. Personally I think 4e's skill challenges work well for this, but one could go more gritty (eg like Duel of Wits) if desired.The last step would be to think about giving different classes/roles different abilities to engage the situation. In the skill challenge framework, in my experience, having a CHA stat is enough. A more gritty/intricate system would probably need more (4e saves almost all of its intricacy for combat!).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7733562, member: 42582"] I would really start with framing and consequences first, because that's how combat works: GMs (typically) frame combat so that all the PCs get drawn in; and there are consequences for all players in combat (ie their PCs take hp loss). If you are playing the weakling mage, and choose not to roll any attacks, that doesn't stop the GM declaring attacks against you that sap your hit points. So what is going on that players who never have their PCs say anything, and leave it all to the "face", never suffer consequences? Never have anyone try and speak to them? Ask them their opinion on the matter? Never develop reputatios as buffoons? Etc. Once the framing and consequence issue has been indentified, then it makes sense to look at a system for integrating the multiple checks of multiple players into a single resolution of the encounter. Personally I think 4e's skill challenges work well for this, but one could go more gritty (eg like Duel of Wits) if desired. The last step would be to think about giving different classes/roles different abilities to engage the situation. In the skill challenge framework, in my experience, having a CHA stat is enough. A more gritty/intricate system would probably need more (4e saves almost all of its intricacy for combat!). [/QUOTE]

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