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Message: <blockquote data-quote="khantroll" data-source="post: 5419495" data-attributes="member: 95652">Not necessarily. Not everyone sees their assassin. If Col. Mustard smacks you in the back of the  head with his candlestick, you probably won't know it. Chemical attacks or accidents will leave you with no answers as well. Also, I disagree about magic countering magic. To quote the Sword of Truth "We are steel against the steel, he is the magic against the magic". In most fantasy literature, that is what inevitably happens when one party leverages magic. It wouldn't be magic if a sword could take it down. By the same token, I am reminded of a cartoon I saw as a child where a knight tilts toward a dragon and the lance breaks. Toasted Knight. Magic is what you use outside the bounds of the sword. Depends on the level and the story. If it is wayside tavern in the middle of nowhere, I would have to travel a ways, spend more time and money, and depending on how hard the foreign wizard dickers the assassin could have blown the inn sky high before I return. A murder mystery in a metropolitan area lends itself to other problems. Why am I handling it at all if better mages are around? How does the constabulary feel about me fooling around and bringing more civilians into the picture? There are times when the yellow pages won't help you. The above assumes that I cannot cast the necessary spells. If I can, I may not have access to them for the above, or I may simply not have the gold for them. I doubt I'll have time to earn it with a murderer on the loose. Point is that there are any number of nuisance reasons I don't necessarily have everything at my disposal. Point taken about disabling traps. A waste, but it does work.I wasn't necessarily talking about combat either. I meant scouting. Rivers you have a point on. But mountains he is going to either ) be close enough to the ground it won't matter or B) he is going to find himself with a whole new set of environmental problems and random encounters. A citadel is a still a problem unless depend on sheer walls for your defense, and leave a window open. He still has to get inside, fight the guards, get past the traps, and defeat me. So he got in with a spell instead of DC  climb check. Big whoop, IMHO.Nope, but because it does not mimic the truly nasty aspects of most creatures, you still have to be pretty big for it be worth it. Plus, depending on form, you may have to give up spellcasting, or you may open yourself to environmental threats. Don't get me wrong. Time Stop is a good spell with the right application, but the level/usefulness ratio is far from the best. Not like polymorph. Depends on what you are flying over. Campfires + Spot Check + Arrow still = boned.Not necessarily talking about magic. Breath weapons are area effects, as are landslides, earth quakes, basically anything that strikes a large area. Grenades will work. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> You are onto something there. I think that, if he can cast enough disintegrates for it to be an issue he can come up with a better way to circumvent walls. Still, though, grenades, gunpowder, or fantasy siege engine accomplish similar feats of destruction as far as barriers are concerned. See, that's my problem. Depends on a lot of factors. In a stand up fighter, you are correct. The beauty of the fighter is that he is versatile. He can take away the wizard's toys, hire soldiers to distract the summoned creatures, and then take his greatbow and with a few feats kill the same wizard before the wizard's next turn. Depending on the player, it might no make it that far. At the first sign of distraction, the wizard is either going A) armor up or B) summon or C) attack. Distracting hirelings take care of those. The fighter sneaks up behind him. The wizard does whichever of the three above he hasn't done. The fighter nails the wizard three times (or more) with said great bow, and he's down. That is just one example, and I can already see a couple of things the wizard might have ready if he's paranoid. Point is, hit points can be an equalizer, as can feat selection and being sneakier then the other guy. I can honestly say that wizards have never been an issue in my gaming group. The players work together, and toward the end of the power band they all achieve extreme power levels. Side note. At present, the group contains a bard, two wizards (different specialties) a cleric, a paladin a fighter and a rogue. The paladin is the least powerful (no surprise), at 8th level the fighter leads on average realized damage. The cleric is the most unbalancing, but that is the player. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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