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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Beginning of the End" data-source="post: 5420110" data-attributes="member: 55271">It's really difficult to have a conversation with someone who insists on so blatantly misrepresenting the text they're replying to.Let's take a standard OD&D sleep spell, for example. This is a powerful, encounter-ending power. Let's take a look at how it tends to play out at the table:DM: You see 8 goblins. They haven't seen you yet.Sara the Cleric: <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />. Time for a sleep spell. Go for it, Bob.Bob the Wizard: Gotcha. I cast sleep.DM: Roll 2d8.Bob the Wizard: (rolls dice) 9.DM: (rolls saving throws) 7 of the goblins fall unconscious. The remaining goblin is looking around in confusion.John the Fighter: I charge up and stab the goblin. (rolls dice) Hit AC 4.DM: Gimme damage.John the Fighter: (rolls dice) 7DM: You skewer the goblin.I'm not really clear on what you find onerous in the 30 seconds we spend resolving the sleep spell. (Compared to the 5 minutes we'll spend resolving the fighters tussling with the carrion crawler in the next room because the group decides it doesn't make sense to waste a spell on them. Or the 30 seconds we'll spend with the rogue disabling a nasty trap in our 3E game. And so forth.)Like I said before, these "encounter-ending" abilities you keep talking about fall into one of two categories:(1) Spells that allow spellcasters to single-shot large quantities of the opposition. Such spells, by their nature, are quick to resolve and require very little spotlight time.(2) Spells that allow the spellcasters to buff their allies so that the combat will be easier for them. Such spells, by their nature, share the spotlight of awesome with the other PCs.Apparently, at your table, the fighter PC can't really enjoy receiving an enlarge person spell because they somehow believe that the "fun" belongs exclusively to the guy across the table who cast the spell on them.That's not the way it works in the games I've played for the last 20+ years. My friends tend to do things like cheer the enlarging and then start singing "Tip Toe Thru the Tulips" as they stomp their way through the goblins.<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90JCY0Eh1s4&feature=related" target="_blank">[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90JCY0Eh1s4&feature=related]Tip Toe Thru the Tulips</a>[/URL]You not only quoted me specifically talking about non-combat aspects of this "problem", you also replied to me talking about the non-combat aspects of the problem.In fact, you did it in the paragraph immediately preceding the one I'm quoting here.And yet you claim that I'm talking about combat to the exclusion of everything else. Why would you do that? Are you really posting in such an irrational stream of consciousness that you completely forget what you write as soon as you write it?</blockquote>

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