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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sorrowdusk" data-source="post: 5420343" data-attributes="member: 96342">@<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=65637" target="_blank">ProfessorCirno</a>  OH REALLY?I. Dont. Think. So. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm    :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" /> Let me count the ways ProfessorCirno... <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/glasses.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt="B-)" title="Glasses    B-)" data-shortname="B-)" /> #1. Locate ObjectIf you're trying to find something specific, say the Macguffin, that implies that you have PERSONALLY observed the said object and NOT through scrying. It also must be very well known, or clearly visualized requirng an specific and ACCURATE mental image. If you saw the locket you might be able to locate it if its hidden within range-BUT MIND YOU it has a limited range starting at at least 400ft. If you have an ENTIRE city, and you have to figure out where to start divining IN THE FIRST PLACE. Which is not necessarily obvious. Now, if the Butler has the locket in his POCKET and he's RIGHT in front of you, or wandering about the mansion then yeah, you could realize he had it. <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/locateobject.htm" target="_blank">Locate Object :: d20srd.org</a> ----- #2. Detect ThoughtsThis ONLY detects SURFACE thoughts -and so it would only reveal that the Butler had stolen the locket and given it to Myster Man Mr. X IF and ONLY IF he was thinking about it at the time!! "~Hahahaha, I cant believe we got away with it!~" You CANNOT read someones mind like a BOOK. Albeit, yes, there ARE more powerful spells and abilities that can, but they either REQUIRE YOU to EAT someones BRAIN (a very nasty Corrupt Spell from BoVD <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!    :eek:"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" />), OR to subdue them to subject them to it (Psionic 5th lvl Mind Probe which takes a full minute to manifest). BUT YOU ARE THE DUNGEON MASTER.  Divinations like that are "Ask the DM", likewise with Augury, Divination, or Communion. IF YOU DONT WANT TO REVEAL SOMETHING-then dont do it. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/ponder.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hmm:" title="Hmmm    :hmm:" data-shortname=":hmm:" /> The Butler doesnt have to be thinking about the theft at the time, when the PCs try to detect his thoughts, ALBEIT-you can use the divination to drop a HINT by what they DO detect OR even drop a red herring. Although as TheAlexandrian notes in his article on mysteries you usually dont have to drop red herrings because the PCs interpretation often leads them to making them on their own.<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectthoughts.htm" target="_blank">Detect Thoughts :: d20srd.org</a> ---- #3. Zone of Truth HMMMM-WHAT exactly makes the PCs think that the subjects failed their saves? There's no way for them to know! From the SRD:<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm" target="_blank">Spell Descriptions :: d20srd.org</a>  Zone of truth is an area spell. You do not sense when creatures succeed on or fail on saves. THEREFORE-you can NEVER KNOW if it worked. A dude could lie to you ALL DAY and you could think he was speaking the truth.  If its a lvl 1commoner with a GARBAGE SAVE-then perhaps he deserves to be caught just that easily. Heroes dont catch commoners, they catch WORTHY opponents like other PCs or NPCs with class lvls. BUT-if the guy is waaaay better than a commoner but dresses just like one, you may falsely believe he "couldnt have resisted our spell, he's just a common man and we're soooo powerful. You're free to go sir. We're SO sorry to trouble you! We thank you for your cooperation."  AND DONT FORGET-it ONLY works on "any deliberate and intentional lies". What if the maid THOUGHT she saw someone else, NOT the Butler steal the locket? She didnt lie, she told exactly what she BELIEVED. And who knows, if there were illusions involved, people cant lie if thats what they "saw".  FURTHERMORE-you can always CHEAT. You're The Dungeon Master- and if need be they have always had the liscence to do so. Comes with the Title. There's a reason why rolls happen behind a screen. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devil.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":devil:" title="Devil    :devil:" data-shortname=":devil:" /> <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/zoneOfTruth.htm" target="_blank">http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/zoneOfTruth.htm</a> Welp, there goes the mystery-IT GOES ON that is! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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