Is David Noonan blessed or am I cursed?

[Von Ether]

From Noonan's recent WotC web column:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060519a
... But often, either the players or the DM will try something, see it work in a completely awesome, game-breaking way, then never use it again.

When we were playtesting Eberron, I had a player who came up with a completely abusive combination of mechanical artifacts including the shifter race, the weretouched master prestige class, and the warshaper prestige class from Complete Warrior. When he’d accumulated all the pieces of his combo, he tore through everything in his path with no difficulty. Later, he came to me and said he wanted to respec his character out of warshaper and change a few feats.
...
What motivated the player to “downshift” his shifter? Partly an innate sense of fair play, I’m sure. And in D&D I think there’s an implicit promise to not overshadow the other players at the table—to give all your buddies their moment in the spotlight.

Where did he get these players?!?

Everytime I get someone who find a broken combo, they ride it for as long as they can. Some even whine that's "not fair" when I put a stop to it. They expect me to "meet the challenge" with NPCs built just to tackle the problem PC instead of putting them back on track with the other players.

Ironically, some of these guys finally understood, when they started GMing.

 

[Aloïsius]

Ironically, some of these guys finally understood, when they started GMing.

I guess Noonan's players are all experienced DM.

 

[frankthedm]

Thats often how it goes. Be firm is all i can say. Don't be afraid to say no to splat material.

 

[Psion]

Doesn't seem that special to me. If I know I have a gamebreaking character, I almost feel dirty.

Last night, I was feeling bad because I was feeling like the mean old DM because I felt like, after the previous session, that the players must be stacking some AC wrong because their ACs were ridiculously high, and I was going to have to force them to go through a "character inspection."

One of the first things that the players in question did that session was to ask if we could go over their character sheet.

Of course, why they volunteered, might be obvious. "Now watch, now that our AC is lower, we're gonna get trashed by all the things the DM came up with the beat it."

Those of you who might remember a thread I posted before the meltdown might understand that this player's survival instincts are keen...

Ah well. I'll save the ghosts and dark knights with brilliant energy unholy swords for later.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I've had players do this many times. Some like being at the forefront of the action no matter what the cost, but most of my veteran players know the importance of working as a team and make sure they're balanced under that assumption.

And some know that GMs have devious ways of bringing an overpowered character back in line, so they voluntarily set things right...before I do it for them.

 

[Piratecat]

Doesn't seem that special to me. If I know I have a gamebreaking character, I almost feel dirty.

Ditto. A few years ago, Nopantsyet ran a fun one-shot. He said twink characters were fine, so hoo boy, did I twink one up -- a two-handed fighting rogue with brilliant energy weapons. Right up until we fought those undead and constructs, I was making mince-meat out of everything in our path.

It was less fun than I would have thught.

I've voluntarily nerfed things in my own characters, and my players regularly do the same. The fact that we trust one another enough to do so is something I really like.

 

[Remathilis]

At a game day, I ran a cleric5/RSoP3 in an all undead module. I actually STOPPED greater turning everything to let the other PCs do something. If they started to get thier asses kicked, I hit the reset button...

Number one reason a nerfed that class ASAP in my own game...

 

[Mark]

I've had a number of players over the years who would seek out and exploit absolutely any and all loopholes in the rules that they can to gain advantage over other players or the situation they find their character in. Some even gleefully announce the fact in no uncertain terms, feeling sure that as a part of the rules the Gamemaster has no power to overrule it. Once they realize that isn't the case, they try to be more clandestine about it. Honestly, that seems to be the whole of the game to them, to find weakness in the rules and exploit it.

Fortunately, they are few and far between and either learn better or play elsewhere after a time, since I don't personally find that type of gameplay fun.

 

[Greylock]

My current char could slay just about anything the DM threw at us early on. But that's not the way I played him. I intentionally self-nerfed the guy for over a year before letting him finally break free of player constraint and let him work his juju over a battle field. Fairly freaked out the other players when it happened.

I knew I had a powerful char, but the char didn't know what he could do. I stacked him with a lot of stuff early on, and then sought to justify his talents by his experiences. And that took about a year RT.

hth

 

[Hairfoot]

Revulsion at my own inner munchkin has turned me into a core-only zealot.

I feel guilty when I consider the preposterous exploits of my rogue/warlock/thief-acrobat. But then, it was with a group who would consider Dave Noonan's players insane for not exploiting all the loopholes and then tearing some more.