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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6058951" data-attributes="member: 87792">Absolutely this.&nbsp; And there's one more point.I have seen literally nothing in D&amp;D next to get excited about.&nbsp; Expertise dice are ... cute.&nbsp; But I can not think of a single way it is better than both 4e and Pathfinder or looks as if it will ever be better than both 4e and Pathfinder; just about everywhere it's better than one it's worse than the other.&nbsp; For that matter it isn't even notably bad - that would at least give people something to get excited about.&nbsp; It's just ... blah.The one time I've looked at any of the content in the APG my very first character concept was for a Summoner who used his Eidolon as a sneak-thief.&nbsp; I ended up realising this would out-skill the rogue, out fight the fighter, and match the sorceror for utility casting.&nbsp; I've never been able to do that to any 4e product - and the APG also brought the Gunslinger to the party.&nbsp; I therefore absolutely can not consider the APG remotely high quality however good the finish is.That said, the major disconnect between 4e and PF I think is <a href="http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr278" target="_blank">Melvin and Vorthos</a>.&nbsp; Pathfinder keeps Vorthos very happy but can make a Melvin cringe.&nbsp; 4e on the other hand needs a friendly neighbourhood Melvin or it falls slightly flat, and Melvins are rarer than Vorthoses.Seconded.&nbsp; How anyone could produce such horrible modules is beyond me.Except that the adventure path I own makes me think that Paizo is far more about owning and reading the game than playing it.&nbsp; Kingmaker is incredibly 15 minute working day centric (by the RAW, most hexes can have no more than three encounters in a day - and one is going to be pushing it) and turns into a joke in later modules.&nbsp; Most notably the invasion at the top of module 4 when a small army with no spellcasters and no one with a will save of above +3 tries to invade the PCs' kingdom.&nbsp; The PCs are expected to fortify the town and wait for the bad guy army to arrive (no even mention that they will do something else) rather than head out there and behave like a commando unit.&nbsp; When the army arrives, the townsfolk are meant to fend off the NPC army while the PCs take on six trolls in the open - and the trolls can neither fly nor use magic.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6058951, member: 87792"] Absolutely this. And there's one more point. I have seen literally nothing in D&D next to get excited about. Expertise dice are ... cute. But I can not think of a single way it is better than both 4e and Pathfinder or looks as if it will ever be better than both 4e and Pathfinder; just about everywhere it's better than one it's worse than the other. For that matter it isn't even notably [I]bad[/I] - that would at least give people something to get excited about. It's just ... blah. The one time I've looked at any of the content in the APG my very first character concept was for a Summoner who used his Eidolon as a sneak-thief. I ended up realising this would out-skill the rogue, out fight the fighter, and match the sorceror for utility casting. I've never been able to do that to any 4e product - and the APG also brought the Gunslinger to the party. I therefore absolutely can not consider the APG remotely high quality however good the finish is. That said, the major disconnect between 4e and PF I think is [URL="http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr278"]Melvin and Vorthos[/URL]. Pathfinder keeps Vorthos very happy but can make a Melvin cringe. 4e on the other hand needs a friendly neighbourhood Melvin or it falls slightly flat, and Melvins are rarer than Vorthoses. Seconded. How anyone could produce such horrible modules is beyond me. Except that the adventure path I own makes me think that Paizo is far more about owning and reading the game than playing it. Kingmaker is [I]incredibly[/I] 15 minute working day centric (by the RAW, most hexes [I]can[/I] have no more than three encounters in a day - and one is going to be pushing it) and turns into a joke in later modules. Most notably the invasion at the top of module 4 when a small army with no spellcasters and no one with a will save of above +3 tries to invade the PCs' kingdom. The PCs are expected to fortify the town and wait for the bad guy army to arrive (no even mention that they will do something else) rather than head out there and behave like a commando unit. When the army arrives, the townsfolk are meant to fend off the NPC army while the PCs take on six trolls in the open - and the trolls can neither fly nor use magic. [/QUOTE]

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