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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Man in the Funny Hat" data-source="post: 4800687" data-attributes="member: 32740">Spread effects turn corners which is what primarily makes them different from Burst effects.  You do NOT need to see all areas that are affected by a spread.  For a spread you only need line of effect to the point of origin.  A burst needs line of effect from caster to point of origin and then from point of origin to all areas that it affects.  Not so for a spread. Plants of some kind are logically necessary for the spell to have any effect.  All I was saying is that PLANTS are not the target of the spell.  The target of the spell is an area, not the plants IN that area, and the EFFECT of the spell is to cause plants to hinder movement of creatures in the area.  You don't target plants, you don't need line of effect to the plants - just to the point of origin of the area.  If there AREN'T any plants in the area, then you are correct that the spell can't have any effect, but that's not because of the line-of-effect rule but effect-description issues. The spell description specifically notes that the DM can "alter the effects somewhat" "based on the nature of the entangling plants".  If the area is solid stone with one potted plant around a corner the DM is free to rule that a single geranium or chrysanthemum won't hold creatures 80' away.  He can rule that a freshly cut branch of a tree qualifies as "plants".  He can rule that an oak tree holds better than a willow tree.  He can also rule that unplanted, but viable seeds can effectively be used as a material component in the absence of other plants in the intended area. Personally, I don't need any spell description to tell me what I can and can't rule as DM, but "adjusting effects" of the spell can be read to give LARGE amounts of arbitrary power to the DM to limit the spell if desired.  It's then up to the DM to use that power wisely and consistently.</blockquote>

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