Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Is everyone in Eberron white?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="mhacdebhandia" data-source="post: 1695778" data-attributes="member: 18832"><p>Most fantasy - even Tolkien, to a large extent - relies upon a simplified version of real-world mythology. Even Tolkien, with his <em>Silmarillion</em>, used a shallow take on historical folklore and myths as a foundation upon which to erect his own tale.</p><p></p><p>The <em>Legend of the Five Rings</em> setting uses a mishmash of historical Japanese eras, Asian religions (Shinto, Buddhism, <em>et cetera</em>), and various other bits and pieces of folklore and history - but what most characterises Rokugan is the setting-specific elements which were built upon these inspirations. Most of the setting detail is original, in presentation if not in content. In Rokugan it's more important, for instance, that the original seven Great Clans were founded by divine <em>kami</em> from Heaven than that the concepts of clan, daimyo, and so on are loosely drawn from Japanese history.</p><p></p><p>My meaning may be confused by the late hour, but in essence what I'm trying to communicate is that any fantasy setting, whether created for fiction or for gaming, is more about <strong>itself</strong> than it is about the historical or literary material which may have inspired it.</p><p></p><p>In general, this even applies to game settings (or literary universes) which are intended to replicate existing worlds. That's what makes historical games so difficult to write well, and why games inspired by fiction - even those literally intended as adaptations - often deviate in significant ways from the original. Unless you play a <em>Lord of the Rings</em> campaign as the Fellowship, for instance, the likelihood of any game capturing the same feel as the novels is very small - the Fellowship's quest happens once, and the individuals involved are special in (fairly) unique ways. It takes a very creative GM to run a story in that setting which can replicate even part of the magic of the original stories.</p><p></p><p>In a similar vein, the Extruded Fantasy Product that makes up the bulk of the doorstop fantasy novels available today is pretty terrible because it offers the reader only a shadow of the great stories it imitates - typically, to harp upon a theme, <em>The Lord of the Rings</em> (which I don't even like, personally, but I recognise the phenomenon of its imitation exists). Even the best stories written in imitation of Tolkien's work - or in reaction to it - don't offer the reader the same thing (which I think is a good thing no matter what your opinion of Tolkien). On the contrary - no matter the similarities, they are always essentially superficial, and the story succeeds or fails based on its own merits.</p><p></p><p>Now, all this longwinded blather comes back to Eberron thusly: For all the promotional chatter about <em>Indiana Jones</em> movies and postwar analogues in Khorvaire, what makes Eberron interesting (in theory, if not in practice for everyone) is the original elements. Lacking obvious analogues to postwar Europe beyond a general tone, the setting's story becomes about how Breland and Thrane and the other nations interact. In fact, at the risk of injecting postmodernism into this discussion, it becomes about how the countries and peoples of Khorvaire interact <strong>in each individual campaign</strong>, and that will be potentially <strong>ver</strong> different for each one.</p><p></p><p>In the matter of race, the same conditions prevail. The fact that the humans of Argonessen look vaguely similar to some real-world African peoples does not mean that they <strong>are</strong> Africans. If the people of Aundair are light-skinned and fair-haired, it doesn't make them Scandinavian (and, in fact, I can't find any indication in the book of what the various nationalities typically look like at all).</p><p></p><p>Even the artwork is just one reaction to the world - one interpretation. I agree that it's regrettable that there seems to be a surfeit of European-looking people (human or no; the adventurers on p. 43 all appear "white", except for the warforged), but what's in the books is only a small part of what the setting's really like, because that's determined anew in every single individual campaign.</p><p></p><p>Just like Tolkien took a simplified version of northern European mythology and built a memorable and creative world upon it, every group of players takes a campaign setting and makes their own version of it throughout their games.</p><p></p><p>Unless they're slavish canon-freaks, but those guys suck anyway. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mhacdebhandia, post: 1695778, member: 18832"] Most fantasy - even Tolkien, to a large extent - relies upon a simplified version of real-world mythology. Even Tolkien, with his [i]Silmarillion[/i], used a shallow take on historical folklore and myths as a foundation upon which to erect his own tale. The [i]Legend of the Five Rings[/i] setting uses a mishmash of historical Japanese eras, Asian religions (Shinto, Buddhism, [i]et cetera[/i]), and various other bits and pieces of folklore and history - but what most characterises Rokugan is the setting-specific elements which were built upon these inspirations. Most of the setting detail is original, in presentation if not in content. In Rokugan it's more important, for instance, that the original seven Great Clans were founded by divine [i]kami[/i] from Heaven than that the concepts of clan, daimyo, and so on are loosely drawn from Japanese history. My meaning may be confused by the late hour, but in essence what I'm trying to communicate is that any fantasy setting, whether created for fiction or for gaming, is more about [b]itself[/b] than it is about the historical or literary material which may have inspired it. In general, this even applies to game settings (or literary universes) which are intended to replicate existing worlds. That's what makes historical games so difficult to write well, and why games inspired by fiction - even those literally intended as adaptations - often deviate in significant ways from the original. Unless you play a [i]Lord of the Rings[/i] campaign as the Fellowship, for instance, the likelihood of any game capturing the same feel as the novels is very small - the Fellowship's quest happens once, and the individuals involved are special in (fairly) unique ways. It takes a very creative GM to run a story in that setting which can replicate even part of the magic of the original stories. In a similar vein, the Extruded Fantasy Product that makes up the bulk of the doorstop fantasy novels available today is pretty terrible because it offers the reader only a shadow of the great stories it imitates - typically, to harp upon a theme, [i]The Lord of the Rings[/i] (which I don't even like, personally, but I recognise the phenomenon of its imitation exists). Even the best stories written in imitation of Tolkien's work - or in reaction to it - don't offer the reader the same thing (which I think is a good thing no matter what your opinion of Tolkien). On the contrary - no matter the similarities, they are always essentially superficial, and the story succeeds or fails based on its own merits. Now, all this longwinded blather comes back to Eberron thusly: For all the promotional chatter about [i]Indiana Jones[/i] movies and postwar analogues in Khorvaire, what makes Eberron interesting (in theory, if not in practice for everyone) is the original elements. Lacking obvious analogues to postwar Europe beyond a general tone, the setting's story becomes about how Breland and Thrane and the other nations interact. In fact, at the risk of injecting postmodernism into this discussion, it becomes about how the countries and peoples of Khorvaire interact [b]in each individual campaign[/b], and that will be potentially [b]ver[/b] different for each one. In the matter of race, the same conditions prevail. The fact that the humans of Argonessen look vaguely similar to some real-world African peoples does not mean that they [b]are[/b] Africans. If the people of Aundair are light-skinned and fair-haired, it doesn't make them Scandinavian (and, in fact, I can't find any indication in the book of what the various nationalities typically look like at all). Even the artwork is just one reaction to the world - one interpretation. I agree that it's regrettable that there seems to be a surfeit of European-looking people (human or no; the adventurers on p. 43 all appear "white", except for the warforged), but what's in the books is only a small part of what the setting's really like, because that's determined anew in every single individual campaign. Just like Tolkien took a simplified version of northern European mythology and built a memorable and creative world upon it, every group of players takes a campaign setting and makes their own version of it throughout their games. Unless they're slavish canon-freaks, but those guys suck anyway. ;) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Is everyone in Eberron white?
Top