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<blockquote data-quote="Beleriphon" data-source="post: 7894331" data-attributes="member: 27847"><p>In fairness, the stealth rules for hiding don't apply if if I see somebody duck behind a trash can. Presumably the were never hidden, or failed their Dexterity (Stealth) check and didn't hide before I saw them. I'd also suggest that if I were following somebody with the intent to be hidden, particularly at night, avoiding making my own noises would be worth doing. Those noises could be not brushing against things to ensure rats don't scurry out, or scare the flock of pigeons off a statue.</p><p></p><p>During the day in Times Square, sure that broken glass isn't to make any difference, but I still want to stay behind people and out of sight otherwise I'm going to get made. I'd also want to use my Dexterity (Stealth) to slip between the throngs of people so I don't get some German tourist yelling at me that I just spilled their Venti Mocha Latte on their new chinos.</p><p></p><p>Think about the way a perp gets tailed in a police procedural. The cops are following until the suspect notices the cop following them, then they switch out. The cop following still does their best to stay behind things and be unobtrusive, until they fail then they fall back and use Deception to make it seem like they're just some person out for the day. When the suspect bolts that Deception has failed because they realize something is up.</p><p></p><p>If we're concerned about urban versus natural environments lets look at it this way: the rogue can still sneak up on a Daask group doing a dirty deal in a back alley in the Cogs This presumably involves hiding above, under on top things to remain unseen, as well as not knocking things over to prevent giving away their position. And I think the same principles apply to allow a character in the Eldeen Reaches while stalking an owl bear.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Deception or Intimidation seem like good places to start for proficiency applications if you're working on distractions.</p><p></p><p>If the druid wants to be stealthy they roll a Dexterity check, and apply an appropriate proficiency. They may or may not have a Stealth proficiency. Never mind that bagging a deer or whatever for food is covered by the Survival proficiency, not the Stealth proficiency.</p><p></p><p>Moving through a crowd unnoticed can be used with that, but again its about hiding behind and around things and people. Moving through a crowded market still requires the character to hide their presence in some way, either behind people or things. I think Assassin's Creed 2 did a reasonable job of showing how this can be done, particularly when blending in with a group.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Beleriphon, post: 7894331, member: 27847"] In fairness, the stealth rules for hiding don't apply if if I see somebody duck behind a trash can. Presumably the were never hidden, or failed their Dexterity (Stealth) check and didn't hide before I saw them. I'd also suggest that if I were following somebody with the intent to be hidden, particularly at night, avoiding making my own noises would be worth doing. Those noises could be not brushing against things to ensure rats don't scurry out, or scare the flock of pigeons off a statue. During the day in Times Square, sure that broken glass isn't to make any difference, but I still want to stay behind people and out of sight otherwise I'm going to get made. I'd also want to use my Dexterity (Stealth) to slip between the throngs of people so I don't get some German tourist yelling at me that I just spilled their Venti Mocha Latte on their new chinos. Think about the way a perp gets tailed in a police procedural. The cops are following until the suspect notices the cop following them, then they switch out. The cop following still does their best to stay behind things and be unobtrusive, until they fail then they fall back and use Deception to make it seem like they're just some person out for the day. When the suspect bolts that Deception has failed because they realize something is up. If we're concerned about urban versus natural environments lets look at it this way: the rogue can still sneak up on a Daask group doing a dirty deal in a back alley in the Cogs This presumably involves hiding above, under on top things to remain unseen, as well as not knocking things over to prevent giving away their position. And I think the same principles apply to allow a character in the Eldeen Reaches while stalking an owl bear. Deception or Intimidation seem like good places to start for proficiency applications if you're working on distractions. If the druid wants to be stealthy they roll a Dexterity check, and apply an appropriate proficiency. They may or may not have a Stealth proficiency. Never mind that bagging a deer or whatever for food is covered by the Survival proficiency, not the Stealth proficiency. Moving through a crowd unnoticed can be used with that, but again its about hiding behind and around things and people. Moving through a crowded market still requires the character to hide their presence in some way, either behind people or things. I think Assassin's Creed 2 did a reasonable job of showing how this can be done, particularly when blending in with a group. [/QUOTE]
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