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Is Expertise too good?
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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7372085" data-attributes="member: 6919838"><p>In my experience, most of the characters built using foghtimg style *either* increase damage per hit over time *or* increase attacks per turn over time or both... And that raises the output over time as they level. </p><p></p><p>Can someone make a build where they choose to not raise either, sure. But analysis should not be based off intentionall counter builds.</p><p></p><p>Edit to add after looking at Achilles...</p><p></p><p>At the 4th tier level he is presented, Achilles has three attacks per attack action which fits with the fighter standard.</p><p></p><p>So, if we take it as an example and postulate an archery style choice (instead of presumably the defense one?)... at first tier he gains that +2 on one attack per attack action (barring bonus action finagling), at tier-2 he gains that bonus to two attack per attack action (barring bonus action finagling) and at tie-r3 he gains it for three attacker per attack etc.</p><p></p><p>Add in the potential action surge gains and i think anybody would see that the yield side of the success-x-yield keeps escalating most assuredly.</p><p></p><p>*most* of the time, chances to roll skills do *not* go up as you level up. You don't get to make more perception checks or more insight checks and thus gain your bonus more often - nor does a successful insight roll at level 12 do more than it did at level 3.</p><p></p><p>So, again, in terms of gain as (success chance)-x-(yield) expertise takes things that dont scale the yield side and improves the (success chance) side **with a scaling modifier** while archery takes things where the **yield does scale** and improves the success side with a flat modifier.</p><p></p><p>So both have scaling on exactly one side of that equation. </p><p></p><p>Removing scaling from expertise or adding scaling to archery would be unwise.</p><p></p><p>Now, an argument can be made that perhaps there are some fighting styles that scale and some that don't and so there are imbalances there - but those are problems between fighting styles and not related to expertise. perhaps Defense and Protection should gain a tier-2 and tier-3 etc increase to keep par with Archery.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7372085, member: 6919838"] In my experience, most of the characters built using foghtimg style *either* increase damage per hit over time *or* increase attacks per turn over time or both... And that raises the output over time as they level. Can someone make a build where they choose to not raise either, sure. But analysis should not be based off intentionall counter builds. Edit to add after looking at Achilles... At the 4th tier level he is presented, Achilles has three attacks per attack action which fits with the fighter standard. So, if we take it as an example and postulate an archery style choice (instead of presumably the defense one?)... at first tier he gains that +2 on one attack per attack action (barring bonus action finagling), at tier-2 he gains that bonus to two attack per attack action (barring bonus action finagling) and at tie-r3 he gains it for three attacker per attack etc. Add in the potential action surge gains and i think anybody would see that the yield side of the success-x-yield keeps escalating most assuredly. *most* of the time, chances to roll skills do *not* go up as you level up. You don't get to make more perception checks or more insight checks and thus gain your bonus more often - nor does a successful insight roll at level 12 do more than it did at level 3. So, again, in terms of gain as (success chance)-x-(yield) expertise takes things that dont scale the yield side and improves the (success chance) side **with a scaling modifier** while archery takes things where the **yield does scale** and improves the success side with a flat modifier. So both have scaling on exactly one side of that equation. Removing scaling from expertise or adding scaling to archery would be unwise. Now, an argument can be made that perhaps there are some fighting styles that scale and some that don't and so there are imbalances there - but those are problems between fighting styles and not related to expertise. perhaps Defense and Protection should gain a tier-2 and tier-3 etc increase to keep par with Archery. [/QUOTE]
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