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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7372340" data-attributes="member: 6919838"><p>i am not going to defend the ranger class as well built and such... but the obvious intention was that the class gains its strength at wilderness by the number of special features from its favored terrain and from its other capabilities like the stride and finding folks. </p><p></p><p>*if* the campaign takes a significant element of its strength at wilderness stuff and relegates it to 20% as you suggest, then that will produce a substandard class - just like if sneak attack was only applied to 20% of the combats the rogue was i that class would under-perform.</p><p></p><p>its the assumption that the ranger is "out of his element" 80% of the time that is the problem, both in the perception and to a degree the design.</p><p></p><p>So again, we both seem to agree that *if* the ranger is in his favored terrain, he is better at the woodsy stuff than the rogue's "extra proficiency" bonus. As for how often that will be the case - we may be in disagreement. </p><p></p><p>personally, if i were going to provide a more "consistent range" approach i would borrow the EG Hunter concept which allows the favored terrain to apply to "whatever terrain you have been in for an hour" making it more "getting the lay of the land" as opposed to "learns a specific terrain."</p><p></p><p>But if i am running a game with a ranger as a PC, then i would make sure their "favored terrain" was a possible factor more than 20% in my campaign planning - a lot more - but thats me. i could easily run things so it dropped to 205 or set things up so rogue only got sneaks in about 20% too... but that would be a - less than good - way for me to run my game.</p><p></p><p>YMMV</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7372340, member: 6919838"] i am not going to defend the ranger class as well built and such... but the obvious intention was that the class gains its strength at wilderness by the number of special features from its favored terrain and from its other capabilities like the stride and finding folks. *if* the campaign takes a significant element of its strength at wilderness stuff and relegates it to 20% as you suggest, then that will produce a substandard class - just like if sneak attack was only applied to 20% of the combats the rogue was i that class would under-perform. its the assumption that the ranger is "out of his element" 80% of the time that is the problem, both in the perception and to a degree the design. So again, we both seem to agree that *if* the ranger is in his favored terrain, he is better at the woodsy stuff than the rogue's "extra proficiency" bonus. As for how often that will be the case - we may be in disagreement. personally, if i were going to provide a more "consistent range" approach i would borrow the EG Hunter concept which allows the favored terrain to apply to "whatever terrain you have been in for an hour" making it more "getting the lay of the land" as opposed to "learns a specific terrain." But if i am running a game with a ranger as a PC, then i would make sure their "favored terrain" was a possible factor more than 20% in my campaign planning - a lot more - but thats me. i could easily run things so it dropped to 205 or set things up so rogue only got sneaks in about 20% too... but that would be a - less than good - way for me to run my game. YMMV [/QUOTE]
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