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Is Expertise too good?
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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7372594" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>As I mention to Ovinomancer <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?626322-Is-Expertise-too-good&p=7372591&viewfull=1#post7372591" target="_blank">here</a>, I wouldn't consider it an automatic success in the same way I would a task with a certain outcome. I would say the latter sits at the level of the fiction and that determination happens further upstream in the resolution process. The DM maintains his or her authority in that determination. I wouldn't consider an Expert "tapping" the DC any differently than someone rolling and meeting or exceeding the same DC. In fact, unless a player told me he or she taps the DC, I wouldn't even know it. I'm mostly oblivious to the players' character sheets anyway.</p><p></p><p>Does that make sense? I feel like I'm not articulating this very well. But I think it addresses at least that part of the objections that some have and I don't. I could probably write a play script to show it if you think it would help.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean do your players say "I want to make an Insight check..." or just roll unprompted? It's more of a side question, trying to see how people who object to Expertise play the game and see if there's any similarities. I find a lot dissimilar outcomes in terms of play experience can come from how much blurring there is between the DM and players' roles.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Of the three approaches described in the DMG (pages 236-237) - Rolling With It, Ignoring the Dice, or The Middle Path - which would you say best describes your game? I can spell them out briefly if you aren't familiar with this section.</p><p></p><p>You say "auto-failure" is worse. Can you explain how that might happen? I can see the "auto-success" bit but have gotten around that mentally. Not sure about "auto-failure."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7372594, member: 97077"] As I mention to Ovinomancer [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?626322-Is-Expertise-too-good&p=7372591&viewfull=1#post7372591"]here[/URL], I wouldn't consider it an automatic success in the same way I would a task with a certain outcome. I would say the latter sits at the level of the fiction and that determination happens further upstream in the resolution process. The DM maintains his or her authority in that determination. I wouldn't consider an Expert "tapping" the DC any differently than someone rolling and meeting or exceeding the same DC. In fact, unless a player told me he or she taps the DC, I wouldn't even know it. I'm mostly oblivious to the players' character sheets anyway. Does that make sense? I feel like I'm not articulating this very well. But I think it addresses at least that part of the objections that some have and I don't. I could probably write a play script to show it if you think it would help. I mean do your players say "I want to make an Insight check..." or just roll unprompted? It's more of a side question, trying to see how people who object to Expertise play the game and see if there's any similarities. I find a lot dissimilar outcomes in terms of play experience can come from how much blurring there is between the DM and players' roles. Of the three approaches described in the DMG (pages 236-237) - Rolling With It, Ignoring the Dice, or The Middle Path - which would you say best describes your game? I can spell them out briefly if you aren't familiar with this section. You say "auto-failure" is worse. Can you explain how that might happen? I can see the "auto-success" bit but have gotten around that mentally. Not sure about "auto-failure." [/QUOTE]
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