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Is Expertise too good?
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<blockquote data-quote="Bawylie" data-source="post: 7373811" data-attributes="member: 6776133"><p>Some assorted thoughts here.</p><p></p><p>1.) Consequences for failure really have to be meaningful if I want a die roll - so if the consequence is “whatever you tried didn’t work and we remain at the status quo ante,” then I screwed up. Something must change as a result of the failure or else the check isn’t relevant and the effort should probably automatically succeed or automatically fail. </p><p></p><p>2.) If the problem is mathematical, how about rethinking proficiency altogether? Proficiency in a field gives you great in-game benefit, but no mechanical benefit. For instance, proficiency in religion let’s you perform and recognize rites, identify divine spells, pray in such a way as to warrant the attention of deities, and recognize undead types - all without a roll. And Expertise in a field gets you the numeric bonus equal to the stated proficiency bonus wherever a roll may come up. As an example, proficiency with thieves’ tools allows you to attempt to unlock doors with a dexterity check (no numeric bonus). Expertise in thieves tools would get you that bonus. Proficiency in longsword let’s you use one to attack (no bonus, no disadvantage). Expertise grants a numeric bonus to hit. If that feels unfair re weapons, maybe give the proficiency bonus as a damage bonus for weapons while expertise is an accuracy bonus. </p><p></p><p>3.) revisit how we set a DC. I do not think we should take the party’s makeup into account. If you played 2nd edition, maybe you remember having a train of hirelings that could do some tasks you couldn’t. I think the best way to set DCs relates exclusively to intent/approach, and that factoring in the capabilities of the adventurers is best left to the adventurers themselves. If they lack a competent lockpick or trap finder, don’t reduce those lock/trap DCs. Let them figure out how they want to proceed and adjudicate that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bawylie, post: 7373811, member: 6776133"] Some assorted thoughts here. 1.) Consequences for failure really have to be meaningful if I want a die roll - so if the consequence is “whatever you tried didn’t work and we remain at the status quo ante,” then I screwed up. Something must change as a result of the failure or else the check isn’t relevant and the effort should probably automatically succeed or automatically fail. 2.) If the problem is mathematical, how about rethinking proficiency altogether? Proficiency in a field gives you great in-game benefit, but no mechanical benefit. For instance, proficiency in religion let’s you perform and recognize rites, identify divine spells, pray in such a way as to warrant the attention of deities, and recognize undead types - all without a roll. And Expertise in a field gets you the numeric bonus equal to the stated proficiency bonus wherever a roll may come up. As an example, proficiency with thieves’ tools allows you to attempt to unlock doors with a dexterity check (no numeric bonus). Expertise in thieves tools would get you that bonus. Proficiency in longsword let’s you use one to attack (no bonus, no disadvantage). Expertise grants a numeric bonus to hit. If that feels unfair re weapons, maybe give the proficiency bonus as a damage bonus for weapons while expertise is an accuracy bonus. 3.) revisit how we set a DC. I do not think we should take the party’s makeup into account. If you played 2nd edition, maybe you remember having a train of hirelings that could do some tasks you couldn’t. I think the best way to set DCs relates exclusively to intent/approach, and that factoring in the capabilities of the adventurers is best left to the adventurers themselves. If they lack a competent lockpick or trap finder, don’t reduce those lock/trap DCs. Let them figure out how they want to proceed and adjudicate that. [/QUOTE]
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