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Message: <blockquote data-quote="durath" data-source="post: 659473" data-attributes="member: 832">alrighty hong....Responses to Hongs most recent post in this thread: Yes, it is true he can only frenzy and use his strength domain ability once per day. However, don't forget that he can rage as well if there is a second encounter. On top of that, the grapple checks I listed before for my PC don't take into account any of his spellcasting abilites as a cleric.If I had a couple rounds to prep before a wrestling match I could firther beef my grapple check with spells like righteous might divine power, prayer, etc. etc.So under most circumstances this grappling specialist would have checks in the high 20's to high 30's. First of all we'll just throw that Red Dragon example right out the window because an Old Red Dragon has a CR of 19. Perhaps you were looking at the entry for white dragons CR?Now, you must have meant an adult red dragon, which has a CR of 14 and would thus be an appropriate challenge level for my PC. Such a dragon would have a grapple check of: BAB +20, Str bonus +11, Size huge +8 = grapple check 39My PC could indeed attain a grapple check of +39 so even when we compare him to critters which aren't "wimpier" than he is he still can hold his own. He would have to use all his resources and would still have only about a 50/50 chance at victory.Against the lower CR creatures you listed he would stand a very good chance of winning indeed.Oh yeah-the grapple check for the storm giant you listed above is off as well. It should read:BAB +12, Str bonus +14, size huge +8=grapple check +34 OK, so I've shown that if this "grappling specialst" takes on creatures of the same CR as he has levels he has roughly a 50/50 shot to successfully win the fight.Exactly how could you construe a 50% chance to win as broken?On the contrary I think this thread has shown that grappling is very much not broken.I'll agree with what's been said before that the grappling rules can be tough to learn and might seem arduous and slow if you don't use them much. My group has had lots of practice with them and when my PC is wrestling we can usually resolve his round more quickly than the spellcasters.Try them out a bit more, you might find you like them. Not  trying to be rude Hong, but it seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about grapplers or grappling in general. Is that a misperception on my part or did you get your arse whooped by one once and are still  bitter.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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