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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6916243" data-attributes="member: 4937">I'm aware of your side argument, but I consider it both irrelevant and unresolvable.&nbsp;&nbsp; In other words, not only is neither of you is even wrong, ultimately what you are arguing about has no pertinence to the question.Unless the OP reposts to the thread, we can't know what the bouncers motivation was.&nbsp;&nbsp; BookBarbarian could be right.&nbsp; He could be wrong.&nbsp; Maybe he was intending to strike the Battlemaster in the helm with the pommel of the sword knowing his fist would be pretty much useless against steel, or maybe give the battlemaster a blow with the flat of the blade.&nbsp; Maybe the bouncer, seeing that the Battlemaster was well armed and armored, and fearing for the life of the patrons, decided the only way to ensure the safety of the patrons was to take the Battlemaster down.&nbsp; Maybe the bouncer was just a scoundrel that thought this was a good time to stab someone in the back and get away with it, only to find out he'd bitten off more than he could chew.&nbsp;&nbsp; All of that is pertinent to deciding what the alignment of the bouncer is.&nbsp;&nbsp; Likewise, regardless of the bouncer's intent, the fact that he attacked with a deadly weapon justifies the Battlemaster in believing that the bouncer tried to kill him, and would have been pertinent if the Battlemaster had used lethal force in self-defense.&nbsp; But regardless, none of that is pertinent to the alignment of the Battlemaster because the Battlemaster didn't actually use lethal force in self-defense, but only after he was no longer being threatened.&nbsp;&nbsp; As such, I can't know whether BookBarbarian mischaracterized anything, but I do know BookBarbarian raised a red herring.&nbsp; I consider some of your posts likewise red herrings.&nbsp; For example, I don't think it matters if the Battlemaster in theory could raise the bouncer from the dead.&nbsp;&nbsp; Not only do we have no indication that the Battlemaster planned to do so, aside the obvious problem that planning to undo evil at some point in the future doesn't mean the act itself isn't evil, punishing someone by potentially temporary death strikes me as disproportionate and unmerciful anyway.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6916243, member: 4937"] I'm aware of your side argument, but I consider it both irrelevant and unresolvable. In other words, not only is neither of you is even wrong, ultimately what you are arguing about has no pertinence to the question. Unless the OP reposts to the thread, we can't know what the bouncers motivation was. BookBarbarian could be right. He could be wrong. Maybe he was intending to strike the Battlemaster in the helm with the pommel of the sword knowing his fist would be pretty much useless against steel, or maybe give the battlemaster a blow with the flat of the blade. Maybe the bouncer, seeing that the Battlemaster was well armed and armored, and fearing for the life of the patrons, decided the only way to ensure the safety of the patrons was to take the Battlemaster down. Maybe the bouncer was just a scoundrel that thought this was a good time to stab someone in the back and get away with it, only to find out he'd bitten off more than he could chew. All of that is pertinent to deciding what the alignment of the bouncer is. Likewise, regardless of the bouncer's intent, the fact that he attacked with a deadly weapon justifies the Battlemaster in believing that the bouncer tried to kill him, and would have been pertinent if the Battlemaster had used lethal force in self-defense. But regardless, none of that is pertinent to the alignment of the Battlemaster because the Battlemaster didn't actually use lethal force in self-defense, but only after he was no longer being threatened. As such, I can't know whether BookBarbarian mischaracterized anything, but I do know BookBarbarian raised a red herring. I consider some of your posts likewise red herrings. For example, I don't think it matters if the Battlemaster in theory could raise the bouncer from the dead. Not only do we have no indication that the Battlemaster planned to do so, aside the obvious problem that planning to undo evil at some point in the future doesn't mean the act itself isn't evil, punishing someone by potentially temporary death strikes me as disproportionate and unmerciful anyway. [/QUOTE]

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