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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 6917061" data-attributes="member: 6778044">Yes and no. I get what you're saying, but usually the next move is for the bartender pointing the shotgun at the patrons, pretty much daring anybody to move.Like I mentioned before (and related to your comment about the players not remembering nonlethal damage), one of the problems I find is that if the bouncer had simply waded into the fight, shoved a few people aside, and then faced the PCs (probably the biggest threat) and drew his sword and said &quot;Enough. Everybody out, this is over,&quot; the PCs would have just attacked him, rather than the expected reaction which is to respect &quot;the law&quot; and the shift from a bar fight to a potential lethal fight, against an opponent that probably has legal protection for his use of a sword, where you do not.So it's not so much a question of whether he uses the sword or not, as it is that he's signaling that any continuation of the fight will be on his terms.Nonlethal damage and grappling are much more common things in my campaign, by the way, although we use nonlethal damage in much the way 3.5e did.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 6917061, member: 6778044"] Yes and no. I get what you're saying, but usually the next move is for the bartender pointing the shotgun at the patrons, pretty much daring anybody to move. Like I mentioned before (and related to your comment about the players not remembering nonlethal damage), one of the problems I find is that if the bouncer had simply waded into the fight, shoved a few people aside, and then faced the PCs (probably the biggest threat) and drew his sword and said "Enough. Everybody out, this is over," the PCs would have just attacked him, rather than the expected reaction which is to respect "the law" and the shift from a bar fight to a potential lethal fight, against an opponent that probably has legal protection for his use of a sword, where you do not. So it's not so much a question of whether he uses the sword or not, as it is that he's signaling that any continuation of the fight will be on his terms. Nonlethal damage and grappling are much more common things in my campaign, by the way, although we use nonlethal damage in much the way 3.5e did. [/QUOTE]

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