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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgbrowning" data-source="post: 247745" data-attributes="member: 5724">Hell yes, bubba!First of all, this feat is equal to the silent spell feat.  Ok.. silent spell ads +1 to level.  So what we're really trying to figure out is not allowing a reflex save equal to ONLY an additional +1 to level?I don't think so and here's why.Our  1st example is a 9th level caster, who rolls 30hp damage for a fireball (almost completely average)  (Note... save % below are based upon the average reflex saves of the 10th level iconic chars in enimies and allies.  barbs and rogues are excluded in both, as are monks.. we'll talk about them later)Empower is +2, what that does is turns a 30hp fireball into a 45hp fireball.   Assuming a victim would save 45% of the time the average damage per Empowered fireball in our example would be 35.A Hide spell 30hp fireball does 30hp of damage on average and is silent to boot.  So, hide spell does 5 less damge and is silent.Our 2nd example is a 11th level caster, who rolls 35hp damage (fireball maxes at 10d6).Maximize  is +3, and turns the spell into 60hp damage.  Assuming a victim saves only 35% of the time the average damage for a Maximized spell is 50.A Hide spell would do 35hp damage and be silent.  15hp less than a maximized, so its not quite as damaging as a Maximized spell, but it is silent and invisible and takes up a spell slot one level lower than the maximized spell.Lets mix our examples now.  An 11th level caster casts a Silent, Empowered fireball (+3 to spell level, and REQUIRES TWO FEATS)and does 52.5 damage.  Assuming a victim saves only 35% of the time the average damage is now 43.11th level caster Hiding a fireball would do 35hp on average, which is 8hp less, but only requires ONE feat and takes up a spell slot ONE LEVEL lower.Don't forget the humble Monk, as someone mentioned before.  Scorned because she doesn't have uncanny dodge so she doesn't get to use her evasion and improved evasion.  That monk's reflex save significanly lowers the average damage of the spells that allow her to make a save vers Hide spell.  But my main issue with this feat is other evocation spells than just fireball.  --Otiluke's Resilient Sphere.  Now, with Hide feat,  has no save and is a guarenteed 6th level negate a large or smaller creature spell.--Blade Barrier,  a reflex NEGATES spell.  Invisible blade barriers anyone?  Blade Barriers doing guaranteed damage and no one can see them.--Earthquake is now a flat 25% chance to die spell.  And its invisible and has around 105ft radius.  It is now a huge area effect death spell.  No save, no Hp requirement, nada....--Flaming Sphere, another reflex NEGATES spell.--Holy Smite is now a guaranteed 1 round blind spell +damage  in a 20ft radius burst vrs evil and neutral creatures.--Orders Wrath now a guaranteed 1 round daze +damage spell vrs chaotic and neutral.--Sound burst now a guaranteed 1 round stunned spell.--Sunbeam is now a guaranteed blind spell for at least 17rounds and does damage and does a guaranteed kill vrs undead that are destroyed by light.--Amost ditto on Sunburst--Wall of ice now a guaranteed  capture the enemy spell.I think everyone can see it should be at least a +3 to caster level. joe b.ps. i dont like S&S... they have some balance problems in many of their stuff.</blockquote>

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