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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8811272" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>1. Very much this.</p><p>2. Fixed, specific time intervals can be overly restricting - turn-based combat and fixed-length combat rounds being the poster children for this - and can (and IMO frequently do) conflict with point 1 just above. Preferably, if an action takes x-amount of time to do or attempt, that's how long it should take in the fiction regardless of game-play concerns. (in D&D I've seen in these forums a few homebrew attempts at sort of rolling-initiative systems that eschew hard-coded combat rounds in favour of actions just taking as long as they take in a more granular measurement such as seconds or - in 0e-1e-2e terms - segments. From what I can tell these ideas add more complexity than the typical D&D player (or DM!) is willing to live with, but I can see the benefit behind it)</p><p>3. So, no meta-currencies. Got it. Love it.</p><p></p><p>I get this, but at the same time I posit that if fully immersed character motivation ideally takes precedence to the point that player motivation becomes irrelevant: the character does what the character would do even if doing so runs directly against the player's interests or desires. (somewhat extreme example: the player really wants to keep playing the PC but the PC is faced with a situation where due to its established history and personality the in-character thing to do would be to permanently sacrifice itself for the survival of others; ideally here the PC sacrifices itself and the player just has to live with playing a different character henceforth)</p><p></p><p>Agreed. But what if doing the anti-narrative thing is in fact <em>what the character would do</em>, even though you-as-player know it isn't what you want? My usual example here is a situation where a player role-plays a character right out of the party; not necessarily due to in-party conflict, but due to the in-fiction fact that being elsewhere and-or doing something else is simply what that character would do at the time.</p><p></p><p>An example for a good-hearted Ranger type: "<em>It's about a three-week round trip to take these rescued people back to safety, they're in bad shape, we can't take them with us into further danger, and if we leave them here in the wild to fend for themselves they're hosed. We're on a clock and can't all spare the time so I'll take them out myself; meanwhile you guys carry on without me. I'll see you back in town.</em>"</p><p></p><p>And with that I've just role-played myself out of the party (and the game, unless I can bring in a replacement PC somehow) for at least the remainder of that adventure.</p><p></p><p>Agreed. If it ain't a challenge, what's the point? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8811272, member: 29398"] 1. Very much this. 2. Fixed, specific time intervals can be overly restricting - turn-based combat and fixed-length combat rounds being the poster children for this - and can (and IMO frequently do) conflict with point 1 just above. Preferably, if an action takes x-amount of time to do or attempt, that's how long it should take in the fiction regardless of game-play concerns. (in D&D I've seen in these forums a few homebrew attempts at sort of rolling-initiative systems that eschew hard-coded combat rounds in favour of actions just taking as long as they take in a more granular measurement such as seconds or - in 0e-1e-2e terms - segments. From what I can tell these ideas add more complexity than the typical D&D player (or DM!) is willing to live with, but I can see the benefit behind it) 3. So, no meta-currencies. Got it. Love it. I get this, but at the same time I posit that if fully immersed character motivation ideally takes precedence to the point that player motivation becomes irrelevant: the character does what the character would do even if doing so runs directly against the player's interests or desires. (somewhat extreme example: the player really wants to keep playing the PC but the PC is faced with a situation where due to its established history and personality the in-character thing to do would be to permanently sacrifice itself for the survival of others; ideally here the PC sacrifices itself and the player just has to live with playing a different character henceforth) Agreed. But what if doing the anti-narrative thing is in fact [I]what the character would do[/I], even though you-as-player know it isn't what you want? My usual example here is a situation where a player role-plays a character right out of the party; not necessarily due to in-party conflict, but due to the in-fiction fact that being elsewhere and-or doing something else is simply what that character would do at the time. An example for a good-hearted Ranger type: "[I]It's about a three-week round trip to take these rescued people back to safety, they're in bad shape, we can't take them with us into further danger, and if we leave them here in the wild to fend for themselves they're hosed. We're on a clock and can't all spare the time so I'll take them out myself; meanwhile you guys carry on without me. I'll see you back in town.[/I]" And with that I've just role-played myself out of the party (and the game, unless I can bring in a replacement PC somehow) for at least the remainder of that adventure. Agreed. If it ain't a challenge, what's the point? :) [/QUOTE]
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