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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kordeth" data-source="post: 4302683" data-attributes="member: 5036">Say what now? Invisibility is a 6th-level wizard utility spell with "sustain standard" and only ends if you attack. Greater Invisibility at level 16 is much the same, but with Sustain Minor. How does that prevent you from opening doors?So you have to cast the rituals a few times to find out what you want to know--no big deal, and this actually makes infiltrating more of a challenge than "scry, note guard patrols, teleport." Invisibility still works, scrying is difficult but still doable, and anyone that wants to can spend a feat to train up Stealth.Illusions are primarily being saved for a dedicated illusionist class to be released later.Forgive me for saying so, but all the missing options you've posted are related to spellcasting. Without trying to be snarky, did you play all-wizard games, or did the fighters and rogues have very little to do? 4E has specifically removed or weakened a lot of those spells that let wizards and clerics do what other classes do, only better.Now, instead of the wizard scrying to find out about guard patrols, the wizard casting knock to get in, the wizard casting invisibility to evade detection, the wizard casting major arcana to simulate the dead guard on patrol, etc., the warlord might bribe folks in the tavern to find out about guard forces and patrol schedules (skill challenge) while the fighter takes on part time work as a guard to case the joint from the inside. The rogue picks the locks on the secret door the warlord found out about, while the ranger quickly takes down the guards before an alarm can be raised. Maybe the warlock's a sly devil who positions the dead guard so he looks like he's napping on the job, and the party moves along briskly to get in and out before the patrols change.I think you're expecting magic to carry all the weight of your spying/sneaking game, and that's not something 4E wants it to do. Magic is one tool in a party's arsenal, not the swiss-army solution to everything.</blockquote>

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