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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cryptos" data-source="post: 4303255" data-attributes="member: 58439">I know you're getting hammered here for this, but quite honestly you're being silly and perhaps a bit stubborn not to see what's in front of you, so I'll add my own voice to this:I would think infiltration would be more like the example you cite (Thief: TDP, Thief: TMA, etc) under 4e as you don't get to use magic as a crutch quite as much.I don't remember having Garret cast Illusory Wall to patch up a hole after using Stone Shape.  (That said we now have Illusory Wall thanks to DDI's Class Acts article.)  Invisibility potions, when he had them, didn't last very long and were expensive.  He had to pick the unconscious guard up and drag him to a place around the corner and under the stairs so that the body wasn't noticed.  No hallucinations as fake guards on patrol.There are still lots of ways a wizard could assist on an infiltration mission:  Ghost Sound, Prestidigitation, Jump, Feather Fall, Disguise Self, Invisibility, Levitate, Arcane Gate, and Illusory Wall (in the latest Dragon) are just a few places where a wizard could help.  Warlocks are concealed if they move more than four squares at a time, can boost their stealth checks by 5 for a few critical moments or give themselves a boost to bluff, teleport, spider climb up a wall every five minutes, deliver messages via tiny teleporting imp, or turn into an insubstantial flying shadow for five minutes.But now it's actually an infiltration mission, instead of a Spellcasting Expo.  Everyone has to pitch in equally, using all of their skills, talents and powers... and it leans more towards skills.I'd just like to add that after today's Class Acts article, I was inspired to create a human wizard character that is both an illusionist by skill (like real performing illusionists) as well as by arcane power, as skilled at bluffing and sleight of hand as he is in real spellcasting.  At level one, thanks to feats, he's got Bluff and Thievery trained, as well as in many of the skills on his class list.  By level 2, he'll have stealth as well, and will be the equal of any thief.  He may not be a Rogue by combat role, but he would be as good of a thief as any by trade.   Eyeballing him against other wizards I've made or wizard pregens, he didn't give up very much to gain this, either.  He's still combat capable.With so many feats (and so few to chose from for any given character build) it's almost criminal to ignore the benefits of Skill Training or / and a multiclass feat.</blockquote>

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