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<blockquote data-quote="Valdrax" data-source="post: 4067741" data-attributes="member: 56320">By now, I'm sure everyone has seen <a href="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20080222a&amp;authentic=true" target="_blank">the new Rogue preview</a>.&nbsp; The thing that jumped out me the most is the utter irrelevance of Intelligence to the new Rogue.&nbsp; The following two blocks make it clear:Note two important things from the block above:1.&nbsp; You don't gain bonus skills for a high Intelligence score.2.&nbsp; Not a single skill on this list is Int-based!In 3e, Rogues were very often high-Int characters to better maximize their skill potential.&nbsp; Now, they can be as dumb as a bag of hammers and still be awesome at their job.&nbsp; While that opens up some more freedom for less clever cutpurses, I have mixed feelings about this.In 3e, Intelligence was useful to every class -- not as useful as Con, but something you often didn't want to put a negative score into, especially given how miserly skill points were handed out.&nbsp; Charisma, on the other hand, was the dump stat of all previous editions.&nbsp; In 3e, you only needed it if you were (a) a spontaneous caster, (b) a rare social-skill maven, (c) a Paladin, or (d) the rare Cleric who actually cared about Turn Undead.&nbsp; Everyone else only cared about the stat when something did ability damage to it.In 4e, it looks like Charisma and Wisdom are ascendant, and Intelligence is on the outs.&nbsp; We only know of two classes that are hinted at to need Intelligence -- the Wizard and the Warlord.&nbsp; Fighters have been noted as not having much use for the stat.&nbsp; (Sorry, Roy!&nbsp; And no Combat Expertise, apparently, if Fighters don't have much use for Int.)&nbsp; Additionally, 4e is getting some sort of social combat system which will likely make Charisma even more important.&nbsp; In the meantime, Cha &amp; Wis are eating skills that formerly belonged to Int -- Knowledge(local) is folded into Streetwise, and Knowledge(Dungeoneering) is just now Dungeoneering, a Wis skill.&nbsp; I wouldn't be surprised if Nature and Religion are Wis-based too.So what's really left for the Int-based character other than a handful of skills and powers for maybe two classes?&nbsp; Int is the new Cha in 4e.&nbsp; As someone who likes to play smart characters, I'm a little sad to see this.&nbsp; (Especially because low Int gets role-played a lot more than low Cha, in my experience.&nbsp; I foresee a lot of sessions of playing the straight man to a comedic bunch of monosyllabic party members...&nbsp;&nbsp; :\ )</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Valdrax, post: 4067741, member: 56320"] By now, I'm sure everyone has seen [URL=http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20080222a&authentic=true]the new Rogue preview[/URL]. The thing that jumped out me the most is the utter irrelevance of Intelligence to the new Rogue. The following two blocks make it clear: Note two important things from the block above: 1. You don't gain bonus skills for a high Intelligence score. 2. [b]Not a single skill on this list is Int-based![/b] In 3e, Rogues were very often high-Int characters to better maximize their skill potential. Now, they can be as dumb as a bag of hammers and still be awesome at their job. While that opens up some more freedom for less clever cutpurses, I have mixed feelings about this. In 3e, Intelligence was useful to every class -- not as useful as Con, but something you often didn't want to put a negative score into, especially given how miserly skill points were handed out. Charisma, on the other hand, was the dump stat of all previous editions. In 3e, you only needed it if you were (a) a spontaneous caster, (b) a rare social-skill maven, (c) a Paladin, or (d) the rare Cleric who actually cared about Turn Undead. Everyone else only cared about the stat when something did ability damage to it. In 4e, it looks like Charisma and Wisdom are ascendant, and Intelligence is on the outs. We only know of two classes that are hinted at to need Intelligence -- the Wizard and the Warlord. Fighters have been noted as not having much use for the stat. (Sorry, Roy! And no Combat Expertise, apparently, if Fighters don't have much use for Int.) Additionally, 4e is getting some sort of social combat system which will likely make Charisma even more important. In the meantime, Cha & Wis are eating skills that formerly belonged to Int -- Knowledge(local) is folded into Streetwise, and Knowledge(Dungeoneering) is just now Dungeoneering, a Wis skill. I wouldn't be surprised if Nature and Religion are Wis-based too. So what's really left for the Int-based character other than a handful of skills and powers for maybe two classes? [b]Int is the new Cha in 4e.[/b] As someone who likes to play smart characters, I'm a little sad to see this. (Especially because low Int gets role-played a lot more than low Cha, in my experience. I foresee a lot of sessions of playing the straight man to a comedic bunch of monosyllabic party members... :\ ) [/QUOTE]

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