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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8062840" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Sure, if he pays him off, but what if he simply appeals to the guard's better nature to help some poor travelers who don't have the coin to spare? That is also persuasion and you aren't breaking any laws to do it.... Would you even have them roll for that? I mean "I am literally holding your soul in my hand and have no problem ending your immortal existence" is less abotu intimidation and more about the fact that you got a Dracoliches Phylactery. I think that is a situation where you can no longer fail, so no roll even happens. Which kind of misses the point of using the skill.1) Again, you've already won by the point you have access to the vampire's last coffin, or can seal him in a magical circle. Plus, as you said the cirlce is far more deception than Intimidation anyways. So... yeah, go ahead and use your skill proficiency to convince someone you already defeated and have under your power to do something... that sort defeats the intent of me saying you can't use this skill on someone stronger than you. If you have to have them at your mercy before the skill even applies, then it is a lot weaker than Persuasion or Deception.2) Congratulations, you are all heretics worshiping dark gods. You may succeed, but you will have paladins and crusaders and maybe even angels hunting you down to remove your evil from the world. Or... you could have just tried to use persuasion to convince him your cause was for the greater good and not gotten an entire inquisition sent after you. 3) Congratulations, you now have an emperor who is seeking your death. If you don't already have his heir at knife point, the entire royal guard of powerful knights and wizards will begin trying to kill you. If you do have him at knife point, you will be visited by whichever assassins an entire Empire's treasury can hire. If he is a really vindictive old man, he might even hire extraplanar assassins to kill you. Also, this assumes the Emperor only has a single heir, and that he is weak enough you can capture and hold him prisoner. 4) No idea who the Order of the Gauntlet is. This guy is probably already on their radar though, so at best this is an empty threat because he is already dealing with them, and at worst... well he just kills you all to prevent you from leaving to go tattle on him. So... no, I don't think that is going to work.Two points1) Does a level 15 fighter even need to roll? Again, I don't really find it compelling to tell me the skill is meant for my level 15 dragonslayer to tell a potato farmer to step aside. I'd like to think I can do that with no problem. And this gets right back to the issue, if Intimidate is only useful against people far far weaker than me, or whom I have a sokid undeniable advantage over (like literally knife to their throat) then what use is it? Am I really going to have the rogue roll to intimidate the put purse while he is millimeters from stabbing the guy to death? The only thing the guy can do is call the bluff, and then the player either kills him (losing the information) or backs down (losing the information) and if I succeed... well this guy isn't exactly going to sing my praises for threatening to kill him2) Intimidate your employees? Really? Imagine you have a boss who constantly "coerces" you into working. Do you think you are going to be happy working their? Think you are going to be loyal? I mean, this is straight out of the Dark Lord's Handbook. You don't go around threatening the help, that just incentivizes them to hate your guts.Why does everyone associated Persuasion with Bribery? Most of my PCs never bribe anyone, but we sure do a lot of persuading. And you aren't tricking them, like you are with deception. You are literally convincing them to agree with you, so how is that a betrayal? "that nice man in the coat made many good points and I agreed with all of them. How dare he treat me this way!" that doesn't make any sense.I wonder if a lot of people run Persuasion way differently in their games, if they think of it as bribes and lies.</blockquote>

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