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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 8063204" data-attributes="member: 1465">Only because no one wants to drive  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Seriously, the 5e skill system is not a wreck but it is definitely open-ended, and that means it is not self-driving. The DM must decide where to go with it.If you look at Critical Role, you will notice that Matt Mercer asks for a lot of skill checks without letting the rules minutiae (like what the DMG suggests for secret doors) get in his way. At the same time his players get along well with it, because they don't start using "logic" to exploit the system, for example asking to try again over and over because the RAW doesn't say you can't, or wanting their unskilled PC do something that another more skilled PC has just failed, because 2 rolls are better than 1. That would be logical, right? Except that this kind of logical thinking is the real cause of the wreck, and forces the DM to add much more robust but complicated house rules which make the game heavier. It's understandable that some people prefer heavy robust rules instead of soft and easy ones, but why did 5e choose the latter? Because WE asked for it in 2 years of open playtesting. Like it or not, this open-ended simplicity was chosen by the community. Now if WotC doesn't want even after 6 years to provide a module for the other camp, I am happy that someone else is stepping in to fill the void. Maybe I can be persuaded to switch to it when it comes out, but I have been able so far to use the soft default system without much problem. The point is, it did require me to "drive" / exert some control over things such as retries, untrained attempts, and using passive scores and groups checks differently than the DMG suggestions.</blockquote>

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