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<blockquote data-quote="Minigiant" data-source="post: 9538923" data-attributes="member: 63508">1stThat's still less than +5.The issue is +2 in a world were you roll a d20 isn't much.You aren't good.I have to roll a 14. You a 12. You aren't much better than me.This is where 5e's problems lie.Right amount of statement.The main reasons why 5e has wonky skills and the Martial/Caster divide exists is because outside of # of attacks the bonuses are so low between PCs that you don't feel better than a dabbler.A 1st level fighter with Athletics prof and 16 STR is +5.A 1st level wizard with 12 STR is +1.A 1st level cleric with 14 STR is +2It's not a big bonus.So without purposeful design or an additional subsystem, spell casting is the only way to display a shift in competency if you don't optimize the fun out the game.5e has 3 CHA skills that do the same thing.4e does too.However 5e doesn't have the subsystem than make having access to all 3 skills in the party beneficial nor does it artificially make it beneficial that different PCs have different CHA skill nor aid in duplicates.4e had Skill Challenges. Skill challenges made you want to have players pick different skills AND want some to have duplicates. 5e copied 4e's skills but forgot the system its skills were designed for.4e made it where you wanted to know Intimidate because sometimes Bluff doesn't work and Intimidate had different social and combat powers.5e lets you ignore Intimidate if you have a single CHA character with Persuasion proficiency.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Minigiant, post: 9538923, member: 63508"] 1st That's still less than +5. The issue is +2 in a world were you roll a d20 isn't much. You aren't good. I have to roll a 14. You a 12. You aren't much better than me. This is where 5e's problems lie. Right amount of statement. The main reasons why 5e has wonky skills and the Martial/Caster divide exists is because outside of # of attacks the bonuses are so low between PCs that you don't feel better than a dabbler. A 1st level fighter with Athletics prof and 16 STR is +5. A 1st level wizard with 12 STR is +1. A 1st level cleric with 14 STR is +2 It's not a big bonus. So without purposeful design or an additional subsystem, spell casting is the only way to display a shift in competency if you don't optimize the fun out the game. 5e has 3 CHA skills that do the same thing. 4e does too. However 5e doesn't have the subsystem than make having access to all 3 skills in the party beneficial nor does it artificially make it beneficial that different PCs have different CHA skill nor aid in duplicates. 4e had Skill Challenges. Skill challenges made you want to have players pick different skills AND want some to have duplicates. [B] 5e copied 4e's skills but forgot the system its skills were designed for.[/B] 4e made it where you wanted to know Intimidate because sometimes Bluff doesn't work and Intimidate had different social and combat powers. 5e lets you ignore Intimidate if you have a single CHA character with Persuasion proficiency. [/QUOTE]

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