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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 9540014" data-attributes="member: 20564">No, if I'm roleplaying intimidating someone, neither Pesuade nor Deceive can be used.&nbsp; If you are talking about taking a non-intimidation approach, then it's falling outside the use of intimidation as a skill, so that's not relevant for the discussion.A bouncer convinces people in line not to try to push through and wait their time will harden their hostility?&nbsp; Intimidating a pickpocket to they leave the square will likely just make them affraid of meeting up with the PCs.&nbsp; You are making sweeping declarations that don't fit many uses of the skill.AH, I understand it.&nbsp; They ACTIVELY PENALIZE use of the skill in an ANTAGONIST MANNER as DM.Yes, then under any such red-flag-never-play-with DM, any skill or feature they determine to explicitly twist and contrive to put in place the worst possible consequences (such as freeing a prisoner who wouldn't otherwise be freed) will be a bad one to choose, but not because the skill is bad but because the DM is bad and actively penalizes you for using it.Sure, just like someone who later figures out they were deceived might do the same.&nbsp; There are repercussions, as long as they are reasonable.&nbsp; Just like an NPC may decide never to mess with the people who scared them so.Which happens with any social skills used to get information from that criminal.&nbsp; I have to thank you for so many great examples showing how intimidate and other social skills can have the same reactions from NPCs and therefore it isn't the worst skill.&nbsp; It's really useful that it's your own examples.Yes, we've already discussed how a DM actively going after any use of a skill or feature is a problem of the DM, not of the skill.&nbsp; So again, irrelevant.&nbsp; Though I have to say, you are surrounded by a collection of really toxic DMs.&nbsp; I'd only play 4e with them, as it seems that's the place they aren't.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Blue, post: 9540014, member: 20564"] No, if I'm roleplaying intimidating someone, neither Pesuade nor Deceive can be used. If you are talking about taking a non-intimidation approach, then it's falling outside the use of intimidation as a skill, so that's not relevant for the discussion. A bouncer convinces people in line not to try to push through and wait their time will harden their hostility? Intimidating a pickpocket to they leave the square will likely just make them affraid of meeting up with the PCs. You are making sweeping declarations that don't fit many uses of the skill. AH, I understand it. They ACTIVELY PENALIZE use of the skill in an ANTAGONIST MANNER as DM. Yes, then under any such red-flag-never-play-with DM, any skill or feature they determine to explicitly twist and contrive to put in place the worst possible consequences (such as freeing a prisoner who wouldn't otherwise be freed) will be a bad one to choose, but not because the skill is bad but because the DM is bad and actively penalizes you for using it. Sure, just like someone who later figures out they were deceived might do the same. There are repercussions, as long as they are reasonable. Just like an NPC may decide never to mess with the people who scared them so. Which happens with any social skills used to get information from that criminal. I have to thank you for so many great examples showing how intimidate and other social skills can have the same reactions from NPCs and therefore it isn't the worst skill. It's really useful that it's your own examples. Yes, we've already discussed how a DM actively going after any use of a skill or feature is a problem of the DM, not of the skill. So again, irrelevant. Though I have to say, you are surrounded by a collection of really toxic DMs. I'd only play 4e with them, as it seems that's the place they aren't. [/QUOTE]

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