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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9540304" data-attributes="member: 6790260">It is relevant, because that's what people do--they sub out Intimidate for something else. There are few to no situations in D&D where Intimidate is absolutely mandatory, no other option could possibly get the job done, in part because most DMs (correctly!) understand that having one and only one solution to a problem is a Bad Idea.It's not me making these sweeping assertions. I would not run it this way. It is, however, something I've seen both personally and second-hand, many, many times.But that's the problem. I've had DMs where this was the one and only thing they did particularly badly. In every other way, they were fine. Not amazing, not great, just fine. But this one skill, for whatever ungodful reason, trips up so many DMs.In my experience, this is not the repercussion most DMs choose. A lie being discovered may or may not make someone hate you. Intimidating them nearly always does, because now they want to "get even" or whatever. Persuasion essentially never causes people to hate you (though if you persuade by promising something and then fail to deliver, that might cause it--but the fact that you used Persuasion is not the problem.)Your sarcasm does you no favors and I won't be responding to this section beyond this sentence.So you're saying that only what the books say matters, yes? One cannot ever blame a pattern of bad DMing from a variety of DM sources on the books, yes?I just want to be clear as to where our lines are. Because I have had far too many discussions now where the books are sacrosanct up until they become a problem, and then it's the DM that is sacrosanct up until the DM becomes a problem, so you fall back on the books, etc., etc. ad nauseam.So: If the books don't say to do this, then even though many, many DMs do do it, that cannot ever be the fault of the system, it is exclusively the fault of those bad DMs. Is that correct? Are we agreed that what the books actually say is what matters, and not how DMs actually use any given thing?</blockquote>

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