"Is it an Evil Outsider??"

[ThirdWizard]

This question is posed fairly often in my game by the PC Ranger. Usually, its easy to answer. "Yep, that guy with pointed ears and moist scaly skin is an Evil Outsider." (Even then its kind of odd that a ranger will know the type difference between say, all monstrous humanoids and native outsiders, who often are not that distinguishable.)

And, sometimes it isn't something I know how to answer. She has her main favored enemy as Evil Outsider, so whenever making a Sense Motive, Track, damage roll, etc. versus an ambiguous enemy, the question is likely to pop up. Now, she should get the bonus because that guy is an Evil Outsider. If it has normal human feet, she's going to get the +survival to track, and if it just happens to look like a goblin (barghest) she should get that +damage, etc.

The problem arises of how on earth does she know that, say, this barghest is not a goblin? How do you run this? Does the ranger suddenly realize from the moves the barghest is making that it is actually something different: an Evil Outsider? What about a barghest traveling with goblins in goblin form? Are the tracks different (assuming it isn't using Pass Without Trace for some reason)?

For a more mundane/average favored enemy, what about a human with an illusion to make them look like an elf. Sense motive gets a bonus to it? Damage? What do I tell the player? I don't want to give away that there's an illusion in place, or should I? "He seems to fight like a... human," just doens't seem right somehow. Should I reveal that the old man they're talking to is a dragon because she's making a skill check (2nd favored enemy). The flavor text implies that the bonuses are due to the PC knowing what to expect from that type of enemy...

How do you run this? If a ranger faces an being that is one of their favored enemies, but is not obviously of that type, what do you do in your campaign?

 

[Olive]

Well, the rules say that Knowledge (Planes) is the apporpraite skill for recognising outsideres. So they should use that.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Well, the rules say that Knowledge (Planes) is the apporpraite skill for recognising outsideres. So they should use that.

Nowhere in the actual rules does it say that they have to know that the enemy is an Evil Outsider to get the bonuses, it assumes that they will know I suppose. One way is for the DM to handle the bonuses for the player, but I would like something that fits the rules and the flavor text equally, or creates totally new flavor text to go with the rule.

Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.

I don't want to cheat the player out of her bonuses, I just want for the ability to make sense within the game.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

You don't have to actually TELL the player its an Evil Outsider. Just note the bonus yourself and add it in on your own without the player knowing. Maybe mention something about being able to easily identify a weak point or something similar to hint at it.

 

[Brain]

I have run into this issue fairly often, and as a player, I try to mention my favored enemies whenever I'm doing one of those actions and could possibly have a modifier. In the goblin/barghest example, I don't think I would know to mention it. At that point it's just hope that the DM remembers what your favored enemy is and factors it in. I don't think the DM is at all required to tell someone the creature type.

Sometimes it gets cumbersome and slows things down, and the DM may want to tell the player a creature type to avoid extra calculations or bookkeeping.

 

[Len]

Well, the rules say that Knowledge (Planes) is the apporpraite skill for recognising outsideres. So they should use that.

Shouldn't the ranger be able to recognize the type of creature that they have specialized knowledge about?

 

[Pants]

Shouldn't the ranger be able to recognize the type of creature that they have specialized knowledge about?

What if it's somehow disguised by a spell or something?

 

[Evilhalfling]

Shouldn't the ranger be able to recognize the type of creature that they have specialized knowledge about?

Nope.
Imagine a Rakasta - unmasking one should be a major effort, as they are geared to remain hidden in human society. If the DM happens to mention a bonus to sense motive in the first conversation - there goes the ball game.

I would side with the apply bonuses, just dont tell the player school.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I would side with the apply bonuses, just dont tell the player school.

This is how I'd do it too.

If there was a situation where the PC's favoured enemy bonus made the difference between success or failure, I'd give them a hint that something was not as it seemed. "Although you can't think of any reason for distrusting him logically, your instincts tell you he's lying here" or something like that.

 

[Hand of Evil]

My soapbox, define evil in your game then use spell Detect Evil.

The other way is during combat you as a DM decide to turn on and off her favored enemy but to me 'favored enemy' applies knowledge on the enemy and you could perform a hidden roll to see if the rangers knows and reconizes it. This could be an interesting roleplaying angle, mods for type of creature faced and number. Say the first time she meets a horned devil you roll a knowledge test, with she fails, no bonus applies in combat but the next time she meets a horned devil she gets a +1 to roll, fails again, next time +2, until she reconizes it, in this way it is possible she would never know a horned devil is an evil outsider.