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Is it common for players to powergame?
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<blockquote data-quote="threshel" data-source="post: 1832420" data-attributes="member: 5164"><p>I think most gamers fall somewhere in the middle. However, the kind of trap your new player laid for you concerning skill bonuses is unfair and disruptive, IMO. I say this having been on both sides of the very same trap. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>Asking for something innocuous then immediately translating a "yes" into another, similar, but no longer harmless, bonus is unfair to everyone at the table. Including the asking player, who has just argued himself (and everyone else) out of ten minutes of game-time. The object is to get you to set a precedent that the player will then immediately use to gain an ability which breaks the RAW. Or at least bends them. It's most commonly used when the player expects a "no" if he asks straight out. It's one of the first signs of a player v. DM mentality, or, as I suspect in your case, a vestige of it. It sounds like you guys get along well, so it'll probably fade with time.</p><p></p><p>As far as your player "looking ahead" as it were, Knowledge skills can be great tools. Is he asking for a particular magic item? If his character has a suitable number of ranks (or can hit a DC you set) in K:Arcana, then he might know about it, or at least can imagine the possibility. Similarly, K:local (or region) for regionally based PrC's, K:Religion for religious based PrC's, etc. I believe that templates are the perview of the DM, and consistent enforcement of that is all that will help. AFAIK, there is no mechanic for "buying" templates with XP. I know that Savage Species has a leveling mechanic for templates, but I don't think it's quite the same.</p><p></p><p>Good communication is your best tool to resolve this. It sounds like he's had few DM's and isn't really aware of the differences that can arise from a change in DM. As he becomes more familiar with how you play and what he can expect, he should settle in. Again though (and I can't say it enough), this will only work if you've clearly communicated.</p><p></p><p>On the ever-present and patently ridiculous p-gamer v. r-player "debate:"</p><p>I proudly say that my group and I are relentless and remorseless powergamers (the variety that stays within the RAW). We are also relentless and remorseless role-players, designing detailed histories and developing interpersonal connections within and without the party. We greedily consume all aspects of the <em>game</em>, and any who choose smaller portions are missing the full-course meal, IMO.</p><p></p><p><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p>J</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="threshel, post: 1832420, member: 5164"] I think most gamers fall somewhere in the middle. However, the kind of trap your new player laid for you concerning skill bonuses is unfair and disruptive, IMO. I say this having been on both sides of the very same trap. ;) Asking for something innocuous then immediately translating a "yes" into another, similar, but no longer harmless, bonus is unfair to everyone at the table. Including the asking player, who has just argued himself (and everyone else) out of ten minutes of game-time. The object is to get you to set a precedent that the player will then immediately use to gain an ability which breaks the RAW. Or at least bends them. It's most commonly used when the player expects a "no" if he asks straight out. It's one of the first signs of a player v. DM mentality, or, as I suspect in your case, a vestige of it. It sounds like you guys get along well, so it'll probably fade with time. As far as your player "looking ahead" as it were, Knowledge skills can be great tools. Is he asking for a particular magic item? If his character has a suitable number of ranks (or can hit a DC you set) in K:Arcana, then he might know about it, or at least can imagine the possibility. Similarly, K:local (or region) for regionally based PrC's, K:Religion for religious based PrC's, etc. I believe that templates are the perview of the DM, and consistent enforcement of that is all that will help. AFAIK, there is no mechanic for "buying" templates with XP. I know that Savage Species has a leveling mechanic for templates, but I don't think it's quite the same. Good communication is your best tool to resolve this. It sounds like he's had few DM's and isn't really aware of the differences that can arise from a change in DM. As he becomes more familiar with how you play and what he can expect, he should settle in. Again though (and I can't say it enough), this will only work if you've clearly communicated. On the ever-present and patently ridiculous p-gamer v. r-player "debate:" I proudly say that my group and I are relentless and remorseless powergamers (the variety that stays within the RAW). We are also relentless and remorseless role-players, designing detailed histories and developing interpersonal connections within and without the party. We greedily consume all aspects of the [i]game[/i], and any who choose smaller portions are missing the full-course meal, IMO. :) J [/QUOTE]
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