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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Belen" data-source="post: 1864510" data-attributes="member: 1405">How much turnover do you have in your group, Psion?  How diverse has your 3e groups been?The character builders/ SMackdown people are NOT the minority of 3e players.  Just sit down with the thousands of LG people and you will see them in their majority glow at any given time.The argument that it is1.) GM fault2.) People you play with faultis used way too often to avoid discussing a real problem with 3e.I agree that1.) 3e rocks and is a superior system2.) 3e is fun to play3.) 3e fixed a lot of baggage of older editionsHowever, you cannot say that 3e does not have its flaws, or that those flaws are entirely GM or Player fault.  You have to lay some of the blame at the system and the method it's promoted.Here are some of the problems:1.) Rules bloat and complexity (even within the core books)2.) Lack of core GM support, official methods to make a GMs life easier, sheer abundance of options can be overwhelming for a GM.3.) Lack of built in flavor- EVERYTHING is mechanical (ie- it's hard to add drama and flavor to some very dry crunchy rules.)  There is a lack of ....wonder....in the current edition.  Everything is spelled out, quantified, and has a place.  This can be good and bad.For every good that has a great time playing, there are GMs who sit behind a table and listen to players dissect their NPCs by guessing at their abilities, roll knowledge skills just to find out mechanics of monsters "In character" that the player already knows (call it meta-phishing) and wonder at how to handle this without going nuts.Ignoring the problem or assigning blame to GMs does not make the problem go away.  The rules and how they are promoted are at least equal in the blame department.</blockquote>

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