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Is it fair to cast save-or-suck spells on the players?
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7150146" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>Totally.</p><p></p><p>One of the fun things about [MENTION=32659]Charles Rampant[/MENTION]'s example running a converted "Lich-Queen's Beloved" is that there are <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?559777-Is-it-fair-to-cast-save-or-suck-spells-on-the-players/page2&p=7148793&viewfull=1#post7148793" target="_blank">SO many creative opportunities</a> to allow the players of banished / mazed /stun-locked PCs to continue participating. Not just the tried-and-true "take over a NPC/monster."</p><p></p><p>I don't know the extent to which Charles was incorporating these techniques in his session, but since they're taking a break in the midst of combat, I'd make some recommendations for next session. This is what I'd do (if you haven't done already):</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong><em>Foreshadow reinforcements/mooks.</em></strong> Start with a strongly framed scene, maybe narrating some changes to the battlefield as a result of fighting/spellcasting, as well as mooks (maybe lots of CR 3 githyanki warriors) coming to the support of their queen. Unless the PCs have been uber-sneaky reaching her throne room. This does a couple things: Connects to what's happening for the banished fighter PC (see below), provides an opportunity for enemies to charm or possess (see "if a PC dies" below), showcases that githyanki travel FAST on the Astral and have teleporting powers, provides an opportunity to spotlight a PC cutting off their access routes (e.g. I'm imagining moving structures by force of will, cutting off a chain anchoring the Castle Sussurus down so it floats away, toppling pillars blocking the throne room door). The illusion of threat here is more important than an actual threat; since the players already know how dangerous Vlaakith is, they'll likely believe the threat is real and dire. Also, this keeps a very long fight FRESH.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong><em>Consider what happens if a PC dies.</em></strong> Since this is Vlaakith we're talking about, maybe their life force / consciousness it absorbed into some kind of artifact? And can still counsel other PCs or even be retrieved with a use of Channel Divinity? Or maybe they merge with the Astral Plane and become an environmental hazard like Psychic Winds or a monster with possession like a Ghost or an Astral Searcher (see <a href="http://www.planewalker.com/content/monster-conversions-5th-edition" target="_blank">my version</a>)? The most important thing is to provide a way for that player's continued PARTICIPATION.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong><em>Banished fighter PC – Expand the scope to inter-planar.</em></strong> Now that the fighter PC is banished back to his home world, it's a great opportunity to reinforce WHY it's important that the PCs defeat Vlaakith, so you want to showcase the cost of her seeking god-hood. What does that mean to folks on the Material Plane? The classic example I'm thinking of is a githyanki invasion. I'd present the fighter PC with an ethical dilemma: His home city needs a 19th level hero now more than ever; does he stay to organize defenses (which you can just narrate briefly or run as a side quest, depending on your preferences) or does he try to return to the fight vs. Vlaakith? That's a MEANINGFUL CHOICE. I'd have some <em>gate</em> spells or something equivalent opening in the sky that the fighter PC can reach by, for example, borrowing a hippogriff from the city stables or steering a red dragon into another red dragon before leaping off at the last second.</li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 7150146, member: 20323"] Totally. One of the fun things about [MENTION=32659]Charles Rampant[/MENTION]'s example running a converted "Lich-Queen's Beloved" is that there are [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?559777-Is-it-fair-to-cast-save-or-suck-spells-on-the-players/page2&p=7148793&viewfull=1#post7148793]SO many creative opportunities[/url] to allow the players of banished / mazed /stun-locked PCs to continue participating. Not just the tried-and-true "take over a NPC/monster." I don't know the extent to which Charles was incorporating these techniques in his session, but since they're taking a break in the midst of combat, I'd make some recommendations for next session. This is what I'd do (if you haven't done already): [list][*][B][I]Foreshadow reinforcements/mooks.[/I][/B] Start with a strongly framed scene, maybe narrating some changes to the battlefield as a result of fighting/spellcasting, as well as mooks (maybe lots of CR 3 githyanki warriors) coming to the support of their queen. Unless the PCs have been uber-sneaky reaching her throne room. This does a couple things: Connects to what's happening for the banished fighter PC (see below), provides an opportunity for enemies to charm or possess (see "if a PC dies" below), showcases that githyanki travel FAST on the Astral and have teleporting powers, provides an opportunity to spotlight a PC cutting off their access routes (e.g. I'm imagining moving structures by force of will, cutting off a chain anchoring the Castle Sussurus down so it floats away, toppling pillars blocking the throne room door). The illusion of threat here is more important than an actual threat; since the players already know how dangerous Vlaakith is, they'll likely believe the threat is real and dire. Also, this keeps a very long fight FRESH. [*][B][I]Consider what happens if a PC dies.[/I][/B] Since this is Vlaakith we're talking about, maybe their life force / consciousness it absorbed into some kind of artifact? And can still counsel other PCs or even be retrieved with a use of Channel Divinity? Or maybe they merge with the Astral Plane and become an environmental hazard like Psychic Winds or a monster with possession like a Ghost or an Astral Searcher (see [url=http://www.planewalker.com/content/monster-conversions-5th-edition]my version[/url])? The most important thing is to provide a way for that player's continued PARTICIPATION. [*][B][I]Banished fighter PC – Expand the scope to inter-planar.[/I][/B] Now that the fighter PC is banished back to his home world, it's a great opportunity to reinforce WHY it's important that the PCs defeat Vlaakith, so you want to showcase the cost of her seeking god-hood. What does that mean to folks on the Material Plane? The classic example I'm thinking of is a githyanki invasion. I'd present the fighter PC with an ethical dilemma: His home city needs a 19th level hero now more than ever; does he stay to organize defenses (which you can just narrate briefly or run as a side quest, depending on your preferences) or does he try to return to the fight vs. Vlaakith? That's a MEANINGFUL CHOICE. I'd have some [I]gate[/I] spells or something equivalent opening in the sky that the fighter PC can reach by, for example, borrowing a hippogriff from the city stables or steering a red dragon into another red dragon before leaping off at the last second.[/list] [/QUOTE]
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