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Is it fair to cast save-or-suck spells on the players?
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<blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 7150723" data-attributes="member: 67338"><p>dude it isn't even the tip of the iceberg of bad DM practices...and I did admit that pretty early, not only would it not happen today but the reason is that I wouldn't have put up with his style of DMing today as I did as a teen.</p><p></p><p> but having a bad DM in 4e that gave all the monster regen when bloodied would make the fights take longer...that doesn't mean I can't when asked why I think it's bad that fights take long use an example of 6 hour fight and how boreing it was... infact to show case that 'long fights are not fun' I could even use Rifts as my example... because the point is 'long fights are a problem with 4e'. so I need to show 2 thing 1) fights in 4e take long 2) long fights bad. My rifts example can prove 2 but not 1. So if asked "are you sure that your DM didn't mess up 4e and make the fights too long" the regen example proves nothing, BUT if the question is "why are long fights bad" the rifts example fits fine... </p><p></p><p>bringing this back to topic of 5e as is, I was not trying to answer the quastions "In D&D5e are there save or suck spells, or spells that can take you out of play." because a 2e bad DM example wont show that at all...However my example was way more basic "Why spells, traps or abilities that take a player out for the rest of the session are annoying" </p><p></p><p></p><p> </p><p> Yup all the time...that's why I didn't use those as an example...in fact once again I choose my example as something from years ago with the full hindsight of knowing how not only that dungeon played out, not only that campaign played out but having played with that DM all the way through 3e coming out AND still to this day being friends with and talking to him and his wife. a surprise is a little late 20ish years later...</p><p></p><p> Yup...I have even said that, I would put a scroll, an item, something to break free the person in the next treasure or give him or her a quick option to bring in something else...why, because of the main thesisis of this post "IS IT FUN TO BE FORCED OUT OF THE GAME FOR LONG PERIODS?" my answer is no... now can a good DM give the fighter a way to teleport/plane shift back, or free you from imprisonment, YES, but if they don't then taking you out of play SUCKs</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> Did you in early 2000's play in CT, if so that might have been the second 3e game I ever played...(also a bad DM story, but because he played favorites with his girlfriends character, not the tpk.res)</p><p></p><p></p><p> Yup...that would have been cool, but in no way was that happening... we were at beginning of a dungeon, the next day was 2 real world weeks away. </p><p></p><p> But you did know escape was impossible, I spelled out it was years ago, and there was no way. I may not have given you many detail (at the time I just assumed everyone would read the words of what happened and trust my account) but the details I did share was "No way out".</p><p></p><p>see it is the single most important part of the story, and the part you and others want to ignore. If a player's character is taken out of play for an extended pearid by any means, it is not fun. There are work arounds a DM can come up with (give them an NPC, let them get an item to get them back in, have magic fail) but once they do so it ends the problem (problem being the extended time out of play) but doesn't mean the problem isn't there, just that they worked around it.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p> if you have played any real amount of time and only ever found 2 bad GMs I am very envies of your experience...I have had at least as many bad DMs as Good ones...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree.</p><p></p><p></p><p>except the discussion of 'being taken out of play for extended periods of time' can't be solved with "just don't do it" and still be OK...the fact that "A good DM can work around a bad situation" isn't in and of it self proof of "It's not a bad situation"</p><p></p><p> then go back and please reread, because I belive you are not reading any of what I wrote</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GMforPowergamers, post: 7150723, member: 67338"] dude it isn't even the tip of the iceberg of bad DM practices...and I did admit that pretty early, not only would it not happen today but the reason is that I wouldn't have put up with his style of DMing today as I did as a teen. but having a bad DM in 4e that gave all the monster regen when bloodied would make the fights take longer...that doesn't mean I can't when asked why I think it's bad that fights take long use an example of 6 hour fight and how boreing it was... infact to show case that 'long fights are not fun' I could even use Rifts as my example... because the point is 'long fights are a problem with 4e'. so I need to show 2 thing 1) fights in 4e take long 2) long fights bad. My rifts example can prove 2 but not 1. So if asked "are you sure that your DM didn't mess up 4e and make the fights too long" the regen example proves nothing, BUT if the question is "why are long fights bad" the rifts example fits fine... bringing this back to topic of 5e as is, I was not trying to answer the quastions "In D&D5e are there save or suck spells, or spells that can take you out of play." because a 2e bad DM example wont show that at all...However my example was way more basic "Why spells, traps or abilities that take a player out for the rest of the session are annoying" Yup all the time...that's why I didn't use those as an example...in fact once again I choose my example as something from years ago with the full hindsight of knowing how not only that dungeon played out, not only that campaign played out but having played with that DM all the way through 3e coming out AND still to this day being friends with and talking to him and his wife. a surprise is a little late 20ish years later... Yup...I have even said that, I would put a scroll, an item, something to break free the person in the next treasure or give him or her a quick option to bring in something else...why, because of the main thesisis of this post "IS IT FUN TO BE FORCED OUT OF THE GAME FOR LONG PERIODS?" my answer is no... now can a good DM give the fighter a way to teleport/plane shift back, or free you from imprisonment, YES, but if they don't then taking you out of play SUCKs Did you in early 2000's play in CT, if so that might have been the second 3e game I ever played...(also a bad DM story, but because he played favorites with his girlfriends character, not the tpk.res) Yup...that would have been cool, but in no way was that happening... we were at beginning of a dungeon, the next day was 2 real world weeks away. But you did know escape was impossible, I spelled out it was years ago, and there was no way. I may not have given you many detail (at the time I just assumed everyone would read the words of what happened and trust my account) but the details I did share was "No way out". see it is the single most important part of the story, and the part you and others want to ignore. If a player's character is taken out of play for an extended pearid by any means, it is not fun. There are work arounds a DM can come up with (give them an NPC, let them get an item to get them back in, have magic fail) but once they do so it ends the problem (problem being the extended time out of play) but doesn't mean the problem isn't there, just that they worked around it. if you have played any real amount of time and only ever found 2 bad GMs I am very envies of your experience...I have had at least as many bad DMs as Good ones... I agree. except the discussion of 'being taken out of play for extended periods of time' can't be solved with "just don't do it" and still be OK...the fact that "A good DM can work around a bad situation" isn't in and of it self proof of "It's not a bad situation" then go back and please reread, because I belive you are not reading any of what I wrote [/QUOTE]
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Is it fair to cast save-or-suck spells on the players?
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