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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Is it houseruling to let a torch set fire to things?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6881665" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Well, it uses the word "dragon", and also the word "flames" (as in <em>conjure flames to deal fire damage</em> - your rendering of that as "fire" is a typo).</p><p></p><p>And those aren't self-referential (I don't think) - they're meant to evoke concepts and phenomena that exist outside of the D&D rules (flames in the real world; fire-breathing dragons in Beowulf, Tolkien etc).</p><p></p><p>Well this is what's at issue, isn't it?</p><p></p><p>Does a successful DEX save vs fireball mean that the character stood there in the flames, bathing in their luxurious heat but not being even singed? Or does it mean that the character avoided the worst of the flames (say, by dropping very low to the ground, or by taking shelter behind a shield or a table or Gygax's "Schroedinger's crevice" in the rock-face), and that is why the robe didn't catch fire (though perhaps it is somewhat singed)?</p><p></p><p>I favour the Gygaxian narrations - hit points, saving throws, and the extrapolation to damage to objects - and I think they produce a fiction that is basically coherent and allows the flames of dragons to be just that - flames - while nevertheless allowing that D&D PCs can heroically avoid the worst consequences of being bathed in fire.</p><p></p><p>The alternatives - hp as meat, fire damage as burning people but not their clothes, etc - seem to me to create a fiction that is less coherent and that makes D&D <em>more</em> self-referential (D&D dragons are no longer like Smaug; the "flame" conjured by a Burning Hands spell isn't <em>really</em> flame; "because magic"; etc) while leaving it cut off from the fantasy literature and tropes that actual give it its depth and foundation.</p><p></p><p>I accept that the self-referential interpretation is <em>open</em>, but I don't think it's mandated, and I don't think my preferred approach is at odds with the rules of the game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6881665, member: 42582"] Well, it uses the word "dragon", and also the word "flames" (as in [I]conjure flames to deal fire damage[/I] - your rendering of that as "fire" is a typo). And those aren't self-referential (I don't think) - they're meant to evoke concepts and phenomena that exist outside of the D&D rules (flames in the real world; fire-breathing dragons in Beowulf, Tolkien etc). Well this is what's at issue, isn't it? Does a successful DEX save vs fireball mean that the character stood there in the flames, bathing in their luxurious heat but not being even singed? Or does it mean that the character avoided the worst of the flames (say, by dropping very low to the ground, or by taking shelter behind a shield or a table or Gygax's "Schroedinger's crevice" in the rock-face), and that is why the robe didn't catch fire (though perhaps it is somewhat singed)? I favour the Gygaxian narrations - hit points, saving throws, and the extrapolation to damage to objects - and I think they produce a fiction that is basically coherent and allows the flames of dragons to be just that - flames - while nevertheless allowing that D&D PCs can heroically avoid the worst consequences of being bathed in fire. The alternatives - hp as meat, fire damage as burning people but not their clothes, etc - seem to me to create a fiction that is less coherent and that makes D&D [I]more[/I] self-referential (D&D dragons are no longer like Smaug; the "flame" conjured by a Burning Hands spell isn't [I]really[/I] flame; "because magic"; etc) while leaving it cut off from the fantasy literature and tropes that actual give it its depth and foundation. I accept that the self-referential interpretation is [I]open[/I], but I don't think it's mandated, and I don't think my preferred approach is at odds with the rules of the game. [/QUOTE]
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