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<blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 6905924" data-attributes="member: 37579">They were more explicit and firm, but I don't think the actual usage in play is that different. (There's some weirdness in that as well. The passage &quot;If a creature can’t possibly see you&quot; implies a failed Perception check is enough to grant stealth.)Really, the reason the rules are looser comes down to giving the DM wiggle room. The harder the rules, the more the DM might have to outright contradict the rules. Not every DM likes the idea of the rogue running across the middle of the room and ducking behind the half-pillar and becoming hidden. The idea that just because the orc doesn't see or hear the rogue, it's as disadvantages on attacks from that rogue as if it was completely unaware of its presence. Or even being able to stealth in the middle of a battle after attacking and while being closely observed.Firmer rules also give less wiggle room for enabling some sneaky acts. The playtest rules (and 4e rules) both deny the ability to run from cover to cover. The rogue hiding behind the pillar waits for an opportune moment and then dashes out for the ruined wall, moving visible across exposed space but beginning and ending completely unseen. Yes, you can re-stealth, but you were observed. And the 3e/4e/Playtest rules also deny the ability to sneak up behind someone. There's no way to step out of cover and silently walk up behind a guard and thump them. Because the second you're no longer obscured, you're automatically detected. Ditto quietly sneaking across the guard room, while the guards are playing cards and not watching.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jester David, post: 6905924, member: 37579"] They were more explicit and firm, but I don't think the actual usage in play is that different. (There's some weirdness in that as well. The passage "If a creature can’t possibly see you" implies a failed Perception check is enough to grant stealth.) Really, the reason the rules are looser comes down to giving the DM wiggle room. The harder the rules, the more the DM might have to outright contradict the rules. Not every DM likes the idea of the rogue running across the middle of the room and ducking behind the half-pillar and becoming hidden. The idea that just because the orc doesn't see or hear the rogue, it's as disadvantages on attacks from that rogue as if it was completely unaware of its presence. Or even being able to stealth in the middle of a battle after attacking and while being closely observed. Firmer rules also give less wiggle room for enabling some sneaky acts. The playtest rules (and 4e rules) both deny the ability to run from cover to cover. The rogue hiding behind the pillar waits for an opportune moment and then dashes out for the ruined wall, moving visible across exposed space but beginning and ending completely unseen. Yes, you can re-stealth, but you were observed. And the 3e/4e/Playtest rules also deny the ability to sneak up behind someone. There's no way to step out of cover and silently walk up behind a guard and thump them. Because the second you're no longer obscured, you're automatically detected. Ditto quietly sneaking across the guard room, while the guards are playing cards and not watching. [/QUOTE]

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