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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Helldritch" data-source="post: 6910414" data-attributes="member: 6855114">PHB p177Stealth: You make a stealth check when you attempt to conceal yourself from ennemies, slink past guards, slip away withouth being noticed or sneak up on someone without being seen or heard.Hiding: yaddi yadda... An invisible creature can't be seen, so it can always try to hide. Signs of its passage might still be noticed, however, and still has to stay quiet.PHB p291Invisible: An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purpose of hiding, the creature is heavily obscure. The creature's location can be detected by any noise it makes or any track it leaves. Attacks against the invisible creature have disadvantage...Let's start: Part of the hide action is trying to not being seen or heard.If you don't move, you don't make noise. Yes you breathe, that is why I would allow a check. If the room/zone is full of other noises, I would impose disadvantage on the check.SoYes the attacker will try to find you.Yes he will be entitled to make a perception check.No he does not know exactly where you are. But he surely knows where you were. He has to rely on his hearing to locate you but you don't move so you don't make noise. Again a perception check against a set DC 13? (in a noise filled zone maybe 20?) made at disadvantage in a room with combat going on.The attacker can always attack your last known position. But he can't be sure you're there.Here are the few possible scenari1) Albrech the warlock is in deep sh**t. His friends around him are all locked in combat and the orc chieftain is coming right at him. He uses his ability to merge with shadows.From the orc point of view:A) The target disapeared.B) Other ennemies are around.He can either try to hit something that might or might not be there. Or simply change target.I would not even make a check in that case. The orc will change target for sure. Not that he is stupid. It is simply more efficient for him.2) Albrech the warlock is in deep sh**t. The damn group of heroes are fighting his minions and the do gooders are wining. The big hairy barbarian is coming his way. He uses his ability to merge with shadows.From the barbarian's perspective: A) the evil warlock disapeared.B) Other ennemies are around.The warlock must not escape. He strikes where the warlock was last seen. A miss. Where is he? He swings again just in case. He hits: Good now I know he's there. The evil warlock is toast.He misses again: The warlock is obviously not there. Time for a perception check. -Now our barbarian rolls the famous perception check. I would make him roll at disadvantage since there is combat around him. I would personnaly set the DC at 20. Hearing someone breathing in a room full of screams and weapons clashing tends to cover breathing sounds...-Success. Good. Now the barbarian is absolutely sure that the warlock is there. -Failure. Now the barbarian does not know where the warlock is. He must have moved away.3) Albrech the warlock is in deep sh**t. The guards are coming his way and he's clearly not where he should be. He uses his ability to merge with shadows.From the guards' perspective:A) The thief/spy disapearedB) No combat around. Time to be extra cautious.Now our guards will try to listen to where our warlock is.Hearing some breathing in a quite place should not be hard. I would set the DC at 13 but no higher. It should be between easy and medium.The guards keep quiet. The check is made. No disadvantage.-Success: The guards hear Albrech's breathing. They attack where he stands still at disadvantage but Albrech is now deeper in deep sh**t.-Failure: The guards hear nothing. They start searching around keeping an eye on each other in case the thief/spy tries to attack one of them from behind. Now they both make perception check. Both at disadvantage. If they succeed. Albrech is again deeper in than what he was earlier.If it's a failure. Then the guards will move on to sound the alarm. Albrech's problems are not over but this part is over now. He can breathe again.4) Albrech the warlock is in deep sh**t. Taking advantage of the festival around he stole a trinket from a noble but the guards spotted him and are now coming his way. He uses his ability to merge with  shadows.From the guards' perspective:A) The thief disapearedB) No combat around. But it is a dark alley. It is time to be extra cautious.Now our guards will try to listen to where our warlock is.Hearing  some breathing in a noisful place place should hard. I would set the DC  at 20 but no higher. The guards keep quiet. The check is made. No disadvantage since there is no combat around.-Success:  The guards hear Albrech's breathing. They attack where he stands still  at disadvantage but Albrech is now deeper in deep sh**t.-Failure:  The guards hear nothing. They start searching around keeping an eye on  each other in case the thief/spy tries to attack one of them from  behind. Now they both make perception check. Both at disadvantage. If they succeed. Albrech is again deeper in than what he was earlier.If  it's a failure. Then the guards will move on to sound the alarm.  Albrech's problems are not over as the guards will put a bounty on his head. He can  breathe again.Notice that in all the examples Albrech did not make a single stealth check. Why? Because he was not moving. Stealth is either to hide or to move while hiding. I my opinion, Albrech does not need to make a check since he is already unseen. He only has to stay quiet. So I allow perception not on his stealth but on his ability to breathe silently. Considering this,  I set a difficulty based on my personal assumption. Is it house rule? Maybe. Is it as RAI? I sure hope so. Can I be wrong? I would like to be all mighty and all knowing but yes I can be wrong.Now, if Albrech is a wizard and tries to move away while invisible. Perception checks would still be made. But against his stealth score. Which makes thing somewhat easier for some characters.Do I DM suboptimaly? I don't think so. I'm on the hard side of DMing. But I hope that I'm fair.</blockquote>

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