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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 3529091" data-attributes="member: 151">I disagree.  Many games stand up to analysis just fine.  The fact that there are a LOT of games out there that don't stand up to scrutiny doesn't really translate into no games being able to do it.  Games like Checkers, Chess and Go have absolutely no randomness about them (with the exception of determining who plays first) and have remained in play for centuries.  Other games, like Dominoes, Poker and Yahtzee are VERY random, but still include strategic choices and have also lasted.  They feature simple rulesets with varying levels of complexity and strategy.  As time has passed, more recent game theory has expanded on not only what makes a good game, but what makes a good game for specific audiences and parameters.In a game like Chess or Go, skill stands side-by-side with strategy.  Chess and Go's deep strategies involve a great deal of psychological analysis that has nothing to do with the game itself, but are part of the metagame.  Is he using this stratagem or that one?  Does he have the Queen of Spades?  Is he luring me into a vulnerable capture?Many games use the random element to level the playing field, particularly with respect to things like rules mastery or unequal player skill.  It also adds a level of excitement and unpredictability, that most people feel makes the game play differently each time.  When you play Catan, the board layout is different each time and the dice can't be expected to behave exactly the same way...so you have to adapt to win.  The problem with Munchkin is that most of the game is going through the motions:  you don't really have deep strategies or a lot of control over the game.  Most of your turn's outcome is determined by the luck of the draw or other player's cards.  Most people I know who've played the game get bored of it after a number of plays, while a game like Catan or Alhambra stays strong years after we first played it.  A lot of Munchkin's fun comes from experiencing funny new cards for the first time.  Once that fades, you're left with just the game...and the game is merely OK.  That's one reason the supplements sell so well: it refreshes the game for a while.Understand that I'm not saying that Munchkin isn't fun; I just don't think it holds up after repeated play the way other games do.  It easy to play and has an appeal amongst RPGers, but when the end-game comes down to a lucky draw for one player (as it can), then it ends up lossing it's appeal to some folks.</blockquote>

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