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<blockquote data-quote="SSquirrel" data-source="post: 1427631" data-attributes="member: 5202">As has been stated by someone else in the thread after this post, reach is already considered.&nbsp; Is weapon speed (perceived weapon speed as it has existed in D&amp;D previously NOT as in RL)less important than reach?&nbsp; I don't think so.&nbsp; But that's just my opinion. &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;What else needs to be worked out?&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Ok ya know what, I HAVE been reading the whole thread.&nbsp; Throught this thread as well as about another 10 threads on ENWorld and also over on MOnte's boards over the last week, I keep seeing this one thought popping up over and over from various people.&nbsp; The statement is roughly &quot;Why would I ever choose a weapon that isn't a greatsword?&nbsp; It does way more damage, is better in every way and it makes me uber.&nbsp; My group almost never picks anything else.&quot;&nbsp; I've seen this basic statement made way too many times in the last few days.&nbsp; Do i think that everyone blindly picking a greatsword is bad?&nbsp; Obviously yes.&nbsp; Does this make me a jackass?&nbsp; Nope.&nbsp; I didn't point any fingers at specific individuals, but I did say that it seems many of you have groups like this.&nbsp; This doesn't even mean that you yourselves are the ones doing this?&nbsp; Read for content.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;As was shown previously by Khalis, the guy with the big weapon easily outdamages.&nbsp; Once Sneak Attack comes into play, everything goes to hell regardless of what the level of play is it seems like *grin*&nbsp; Also Khalis missed the part about a max of 5 attacks in a round with the iterative attack system.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Brainfart.&nbsp; haven't actually played 3E in about 5 months as my group switched back to Rolemaster and then we've been on a sort of hiatus for about 2 months.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;So who exactly is saying this?&nbsp; I went back and double checked my old posts.&nbsp; I never said this was for a more realistic point of view.&nbsp; I said that this would seem like a decent way to make other weapons a bit more attractive and not just an automatic &quot;Give me my greatsword&quot;.&nbsp; I mean, if I wanted realism I would be playing GURPS or Rolemaster.&nbsp; D&amp;D is (in general) much more my cup of tea, but I thought that the old SF method was dull and borrowing a bit from the EQ RPG could be a pretty simple answer.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;Is this some addition in 3.5 (which I don't own yet)?&nbsp; In 3E the Two Weapon Fighting feat just reduced your penalties on the attack while dual wielding and anytime you picked up a second weapon you got one extra attack.&nbsp; Never more.&nbsp;&nbsp;Also someone said that the plusses from magic weapons messed with the system in a major way.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; A few points of extra damage (when done in an even comparison ie. +5 greatsword and +5 dagger) won't make up a huge bit of ground, especially when you're only talking a max of 5 attacks.&nbsp;&nbsp;New math:Basic combat(BAB+20 18 Strength no criticals)&nbsp;Dagger+5:20/16/12/8/4&nbsp;(7.5*5)&lt;avg dmg+magic bonus&gt;+(4*5)&lt;str bonus&gt;=57.5&nbsp;Greatsword+5:20/14/8/2&nbsp;(12*4)&lt;avg dmg+magic bonus&gt;+(4*5*1.5)&lt;str bonus&gt;=78&nbsp;&nbsp;57.5 Dagger vs 78 Greatsword.&nbsp; Still easily greatsword advantage.&nbsp;&nbsp;New math:Sneak Attack Dagger (Rogue 20)vs Regular Greatsword(Fighter 20)(18 Strength no criticals)&nbsp;Dagger+5:15/11/7/3&nbsp;(7.5*4)&lt;avg dmg+magic bonus&gt;+(4*4)&lt;str bonus&gt;+(35*4)&lt;Sneak Attack avg dmg&gt;=186&nbsp;Dagger+5:15/10/5(Standard 3E)&nbsp; (7.5*3)&lt;avg dmg+magic bonus&gt;+(4*3)&lt;str bonus&gt;+(35*3)&lt;Sneak Attack avg dmg&gt;=139.5&nbsp;Greatsword+5:20/14/8/2&nbsp; (12*4)&lt;avg dmg+magic bonus&gt;+(4*5*1.5)&lt;str bonus&gt;=78&nbsp;Greatsword+5:20/15/10/5(Standard 3E)&nbsp; (12*4)&lt;avg dmg+magic bonus&gt;+(4*5*1.5)&lt;str bonus&gt;=78&nbsp;&nbsp;This doesn't prove the brokenness of this system, it proves the brokenness of Sneak Attack *grin*&nbsp; 139.5 or 186 in a turn full of Sneak Attacks.&nbsp; Either way it's going to kill or seriously wound something.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;This still doesn't include Power Attack or going backwards thru the levels and finding what level Sneak Attack Dagger becomes better than Greatsword.&nbsp; I would guess somewhere around level 10.&nbsp; Actually, Average of 3.5 extra points for each 1d6 of Sneak Attack, it wouldn't surpass the Greatsword until 14th level.&nbsp; Considering that many (if not most) D&amp;D games never even continue to this level....&nbsp;&nbsp;Hagen</blockquote>

[QUOTE="SSquirrel, post: 1427631, member: 5202"] As has been stated by someone else in the thread after this post, reach is already considered. Is weapon speed (perceived weapon speed as it has existed in D&D previously NOT as in RL)less important than reach? I don't think so. But that's just my opinion. What else needs to be worked out? Ok ya know what, I HAVE been reading the whole thread. Throught this thread as well as about another 10 threads on ENWorld and also over on MOnte's boards over the last week, I keep seeing this one thought popping up over and over from various people. The statement is roughly "Why would I ever choose a weapon that isn't a greatsword? It does way more damage, is better in every way and it makes me uber. My group almost never picks anything else." I've seen this basic statement made way too many times in the last few days. Do i think that everyone blindly picking a greatsword is bad? Obviously yes. Does this make me a jackass? Nope. I didn't point any fingers at specific individuals, but I did say that it seems many of you have groups like this. This doesn't even mean that you yourselves are the ones doing this? Read for content. As was shown previously by Khalis, the guy with the big weapon easily outdamages. Once Sneak Attack comes into play, everything goes to hell regardless of what the level of play is it seems like *grin* Also Khalis missed the part about a max of 5 attacks in a round with the iterative attack system. Brainfart. haven't actually played 3E in about 5 months as my group switched back to Rolemaster and then we've been on a sort of hiatus for about 2 months. So who exactly is saying this? I went back and double checked my old posts. I never said this was for a more realistic point of view. I said that this would seem like a decent way to make other weapons a bit more attractive and not just an automatic "Give me my greatsword". I mean, if I wanted realism I would be playing GURPS or Rolemaster. D&D is (in general) much more my cup of tea, but I thought that the old SF method was dull and borrowing a bit from the EQ RPG could be a pretty simple answer. Is this some addition in 3.5 (which I don't own yet)? In 3E the Two Weapon Fighting feat just reduced your penalties on the attack while dual wielding and anytime you picked up a second weapon you got one extra attack. Never more. Also someone said that the plusses from magic weapons messed with the system in a major way. Why? A few points of extra damage (when done in an even comparison ie. +5 greatsword and +5 dagger) won't make up a huge bit of ground, especially when you're only talking a max of 5 attacks. New math:Basic combat(BAB+20 18 Strength no criticals) Dagger+5:20/16/12/8/4 (7.5*5)<avg dmg+magic bonus>+(4*5)<str bonus>=57.5 Greatsword+5:20/14/8/2 (12*4)<avg dmg+magic bonus>+(4*5*1.5)<str bonus>=78 57.5 Dagger vs 78 Greatsword. Still easily greatsword advantage. New math:Sneak Attack Dagger (Rogue 20)vs Regular Greatsword(Fighter 20)(18 Strength no criticals) Dagger+5:15/11/7/3 (7.5*4)<avg dmg+magic bonus>+(4*4)<str bonus>+(35*4)<Sneak Attack avg dmg>=186 Dagger+5:15/10/5(Standard 3E) (7.5*3)<avg dmg+magic bonus>+(4*3)<str bonus>+(35*3)<Sneak Attack avg dmg>=139.5 Greatsword+5:20/14/8/2 (12*4)<avg dmg+magic bonus>+(4*5*1.5)<str bonus>=78 Greatsword+5:20/15/10/5(Standard 3E) (12*4)<avg dmg+magic bonus>+(4*5*1.5)<str bonus>=78 This doesn't prove the brokenness of this system, it proves the brokenness of Sneak Attack *grin* 139.5 or 186 in a turn full of Sneak Attacks. Either way it's going to kill or seriously wound something. This still doesn't include Power Attack or going backwards thru the levels and finding what level Sneak Attack Dagger becomes better than Greatsword. I would guess somewhere around level 10. Actually, Average of 3.5 extra points for each 1d6 of Sneak Attack, it wouldn't surpass the Greatsword until 14th level. Considering that many (if not most) D&D games never even continue to this level.... Hagen [/QUOTE]

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