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Message: <blockquote data-quote="shadismythos" data-source="post: 1497385" data-attributes="member: 17254">here's my 2 centsA lot of this is a rip-off from previous posts, but here's what we have been playing with and tweaking for the last month:Very Light:   1 lb or less   base speed 3   20/17/14/11Light:          2-3 lbs        base speed 4   20/16/12/8Medium:         4 lbs             base speed 5   20/15/10/5Heavy:         5-7 lbs        base speed 6   20/14/8/2Very Heavy:  8+             base speed 7    20/13/6There has been speculation about how unwieldly some weapons may be compared to others, due to how the weapon is weighted, where the “business end” is situated, or even how much of the weapon’s striking surface can easily be brought to bear.  For instance, a battleaxe has only the one-sided cutting edge which is small compared to the cutting edge length of a sword, and being tip heavy is not as balanced as a sword.  These, however, do not actually affect the swing, but rather the hit, which is represented in both damage and the critical threat range and damage multiplier.Now for strength.  Obviously, a 12 lb weapon is as nothing to a 22 STR character.  So, for every +2 modifier in STR, decrease the base speed by 1.  And for every -1 in STR, increase the base speed by 1.  Keep in mind that wielding a weapon in both hands multiplies the STR bonus by 1.5.  So, a  fighter with max attacks and 17 STR with a 2-handed greatsword would be base speed 5 (greatsword very heavy base speed 7, Str 17 +3, 2 handed bonus +4.5 round down, +4 bonus reduces base speed 7 to base speed 5)In the case of dual-wielding, all the above still apply, thought they won’t be applicable until a character obtains the Improved Two Weapon Fighting feat or better.  All normal penalties for dual-wielding still apply.Double weapons are more tricky.  Now the “second” portion of the weapon is almost always considered light, so penalties for dual-wielding are minimized.  However, the second hand is not as maneuverable while holding a double weapon as it would be holding a separate weapon.  As such, we will not treat it as a second weapon, but as an extension of the same weapon.  For purposes of determining base speed, treat double weapons as a single 2 handed weapon with the appropriate STR multiplier of 1.5.  Keep in mind this multiplier does not apply to the damge as it would with a regular 2 handed weapon, only the base speed (the character is only holding it 2 handed, not swinging it 2 handed).  If they should opt to use it as a single 2 handed weapon (which is allowed in most instances, but they forfeit the extra off hand attacks) the damage multiplier will apply as well.Now to address the problem of training.  Of course, a high level fighter could and should be able to whip around a heavier weapon with greater ease than a low level one.  And training is done with feats.WEAPON SPEED [GENERAL]Choose one type of weapon for which you have already selected the Weapon Focus feat. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple as your weapon for purposes of this feat. You are faster than normal when using this weapon.Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, base attack bonus +6Benefit: Your iterated attacks in a full attack with this weapon increase in base speed speed by 1.Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon......A fighter may select Weapon Speed as one of his fighter bonus feats.GREATER WEAPON SPEED [GENERAL]Choose one type of weapon for which you have already selected the Weapon Speed feat. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple as your weapon for purposes of this feat. Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, Greater Weapon Focus with selected weapon, Weapon Speed with the selected weapon, base attack bonus +12Benefit: Your iterated attacks in a full attack with this weapon increase in base speed by 2.  This supersedes the bonus granted by the Weapon Speed feat.Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.......A fighter may select Greater Weapon Speed as one of his fighter bonus feats.EPIC WEAPON SPEED [GENERAL]Choose one type of weapon for which you have already selected the Weapon Speed feat. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple as your weapon for purposes of this feat. Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, Greater Weapon Focus with selected weapon, Epic Weapon Focus with the selected weapon, Weapon Speed with the selected weapon, Greater Weapon Speed with the selected weapon Benefit: Your iterated attacks in a full attack with this weapon increase in base speed by 3.  This supersedes the bonus granted by the Greater Weapon Speed feat.Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon......A fighter may select Epic Weapon Speed as one of his fighter bonus feats.I dunno.  It works, and makes for some very varied (did I just say that) fighting styles, where a well trained fighter still rules in melee, but a quick thief shouldn't be discounted either.  Let me know.</blockquote>

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