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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6354400" data-attributes="member: 996">They were - past certain levels.&nbsp; They're certainly set up too be too versatile, again, in 5e.&nbsp; Too powerful?&nbsp; Too soon to tell, but the bar 'too' power may need to be lower than one might expect (because of all that neo-Vancian versatility).&nbsp;I'd say the point of balance is to present the player with many choices, as many of which as possible are both meaningful and balanced.&nbsp; There are quite a few class/sub-class choices slated for the PH.&nbsp; If some of them are clearly superior to the rest or others are clearly inferior, some of them won't be real choices.&nbsp; Taking a highly-specialized character like a 'pyromancer' (wrong word, btw, it actually means someone who gazes into a fire for purposes of divination - but common usage in context), and giving it, say, huge damage, to compensate for it frequently facing creatures that are immune to that huge damage doesn't make it a very meaningful/viable choice.&nbsp; It's too powerful, much of the time, overshadowing other blasty/DPR types, and helpless other times.&nbsp; OTOH, leaving it with reasonable damage, but able to do /something/ to deal with fire-immune enemies (whether that's punch through their immunity or 'turn' or otherwise mess with them because they're so strongly fire-aspected), doesn't make them more powerful, just more consistent, and a potentially more viable choice.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6354400, member: 996"] They were - past certain levels. They're certainly set up too be too versatile, again, in 5e. Too powerful? Too soon to tell, but the bar 'too' power may need to be lower than one might expect (because of all that neo-Vancian versatility). I'd say the point of balance is to present the player with many choices, as many of which as possible are both meaningful and balanced. There are quite a few class/sub-class choices slated for the PH. If some of them are clearly superior to the rest or others are clearly inferior, some of them won't be real choices. Taking a highly-specialized character like a 'pyromancer' (wrong word, btw, it actually means someone who gazes into a fire for purposes of divination - but common usage in context), and giving it, say, huge damage, to compensate for it frequently facing creatures that are immune to that huge damage doesn't make it a very meaningful/viable choice. It's too powerful, much of the time, overshadowing other blasty/DPR types, and helpless other times. OTOH, leaving it with reasonable damage, but able to do /something/ to deal with fire-immune enemies (whether that's punch through their immunity or 'turn' or otherwise mess with them because they're so strongly fire-aspected), doesn't make them more powerful, just more consistent, and a potentially more viable choice. [/QUOTE]

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