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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 6354823" data-attributes="member: 2629">Resilient is the best example we have?You're not generally going to take this before you get to 20 on an attribute.&nbsp; The benefits on your attack rolls and on the saves you cause outstrips the defensive benefits.&nbsp; And you certainly won't be taking this feat to get your prime to 20 - as all PCs are already proficient with their prime attribute's saves.&nbsp; So, let's say that you get your prime to 20 at level 4 or 8 (maybe 6 if you get the extra attribute bonuses).&nbsp; Now you're ready to take this feat - right? At levels 6, 8 or 12?&nbsp; If you take it there, you've already spent a long time without it.&nbsp; However, I don't think you do take it now.&nbsp; Why not?&nbsp; Because that +1 attribute is going to be in the attribute that gets a save bonus.&nbsp;&nbsp; And there will only be 2 abilities tied to saves that happen often enough to be worth while and few classes give you much benefit for raising an additional 'good' stat (con, dex, wis).&nbsp; A few classes (monk for example) do, and some multiclass combos do... but not many.&nbsp; And if the class situation is right, you still only gain a real benefit at that time from the attribute gain if you had an odd attribute.&nbsp; If not, the benefit is delayed at least until you next get a chance to increase attributes or gain a feat....Further, let's be honest about how useful that save bonus is.&nbsp; In 4E we had feats that gave a huge bonus for one save.&nbsp; And they were rarely taken.&nbsp; And, in 4E, your defenses were targeted more often than you'll make saves in 5E... And, even if you do want it, it will be competing with other feats that may be better for your build.There are counter arguments as well, but I am not about to call this a must have feat when I doubt many PCs will get it before 8th level - and often would not be taken until high levels if ever.&nbsp; Your opinion may differ, but I feel pretty solid in dropping the must have label here.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 6354823, member: 2629"] Resilient is the best example we have? You're not generally going to take this before you get to 20 on an attribute. The benefits on your attack rolls and on the saves you cause outstrips the defensive benefits. And you certainly won't be taking this feat to get your prime to 20 - as all PCs are already proficient with their prime attribute's saves. So, let's say that you get your prime to 20 at level 4 or 8 (maybe 6 if you get the extra attribute bonuses). Now you're ready to take this feat - right? At levels 6, 8 or 12? If you take it there, you've already spent a long time without it. However, I don't think you do take it now. Why not? Because that +1 attribute is going to be in the attribute that gets a save bonus. And there will only be 2 abilities tied to saves that happen often enough to be worth while and few classes give you much benefit for raising an additional 'good' stat (con, dex, wis). A few classes (monk for example) do, and some multiclass combos do... but not many. And if the class situation is right, you still only gain a real benefit at that time from the attribute gain if you had an odd attribute. If not, the benefit is delayed at least until you next get a chance to increase attributes or gain a feat.... Further, let's be honest about how useful that save bonus is. In 4E we had feats that gave a huge bonus for one save. And they were rarely taken. And, in 4E, your defenses were targeted more often than you'll make saves in 5E... And, even if you do want it, it will be competing with other feats that may be better for your build. There are counter arguments as well, but I am not about to call this a must have feat when I doubt many PCs will get it before 8th level - and often would not be taken until high levels if ever. Your opinion may differ, but I feel pretty solid in dropping the must have label here. [/QUOTE]

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