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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gizmo33" data-source="post: 3446198" data-attributes="member: 30001">Time is not on the side of the wizard with improved invisibility, but I agree that most everything else is.  If I were a wizard-hunter though, I'd make sure that combat began with a sneak attack.  Then I'd probably have some smoke-sticks and a trained hawk or two handy.  Basically though, I still think you'd have your work cut out for you in a high-magic world, because a flying magic item that wouldn't have the activation issues (time, AoO) of a potion is as expensive as something that the wizard could use to kill me.IMO it doesn't make sense to curtail magic items and not curtail any of the factors that govern the creation of them.  in the case of requiring non-spellcaster levels, then it's not a 7th level rogue vs. 7th level wizard situation either.  IMO multi-classing issues would work out in the favor of the single-classed (ie. rogue or warrior) characters.I would think that even in a low magic world (as in mine, if you can call it that) such items are available.  They're just more expensive.Much like the "rogue vs. wizard" example, this is all a matter of what the NPCs know and how much time they have.  It's more than running things pragmatically, the NPCs have to have such things in their favor.  If for some reason, they've sent out a lot of scouts and the PCs have managed to slip by those defenses, then the PCs have a certain amount of time to seek out the BBEG before the scouts are recalled, reinforcements can come from other areas, and specialized tactics (such as smokesticks and trained hawks) can be devised for the abilities shown by the PCs.  PCs can counter these tactics with their own, but if a DM doesn't have his NPCs react this way, then players aren't usually in the habit of doing much else than sleeping outside of the dungeon and then going back in the next day.If, for arguments sake, we even agreed on that (and I agree with you that it's true under a wide variety of circumstances), then I guess the helpful thing is to define what you need to do to rebalance things.  If improved invisibility/fly is really the cornerstone of the issue, then that's easy enough to fix.  If invisibility is at the root of the problem, then it's worth changing for a low-magic campaign I guess - invisibility has a duration of 1 round/3 levels for instance. If the problem is so entrenched in the rules as to not easily be fixable, then I don't see why the imbalance doesn't already exist in a normal magic world.  I can buy a wand of dispel magic pretty cheaply and I suppose blast a rogue with it anytime I see him quaff a potion.  That goes back to the issue of whether magic items are redundant for spellcasters, and I don't believe that they are.  Give the rogue and wizard equal GP to buy magic items, and while the rogue is buying stuff to counter what the wizard can already do, the wizard can buy stuff to cause the rogue a whole new set of problems.</blockquote>

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