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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 1574191" data-attributes="member: 2013">I disagree that their potentially long lives made their deaths more tragic.  Who is to say that a long life filled with little is more valuable than a short life filled with much?No, haven't played in a campaign like that.Rationale: IIRC, in Tolkien's cosmology, humans, hobbits, et al were given by Iluvatar (the "God" above the Valar) the gift of death - and through death, the ability to move on to other realms beyond the realm of elven - or Valar - perception.  That is, the elves and Valar knew that Iluvatar had some purpose for men, and some destination for their "souls" after death.  Death, then, is not the end for humans and hobbits - or presumably for Istari, Sauron, and other powerful spirits of their ilk.Elves, by contrast, were not naturally "gifted" death - the implication seems to be that while humans have a dual body/soul nature, elves do not.  The destruction/death of an elf includes the destruction of a soul.I suppose, depending upon your POV, the ability to terminate the existence of one's own soul might be seen as the ultimate gift - or the ultimate tragedy.  To never have to ruminate upon all the sorrows you have seen?  That could be good.  To never be able to reflect upon all the joy you have seen?  Bad.Humans, I suppose, have the potential there to see their friends and family after death... Theoden, for example, references meeting his "forefathers" and how he will not be ashamed to stand among them.  Gandalf tells Pippin that "death is not the end."  That thought - that we continue to exist after death and thus have eternity to spend with those we love - is perhaps a pleasant and comforting one for humans.Elves, by contrast, have no such comfort - through the ages, all their non-elvish friends will die, and the elves will NOT get to see them again.  They must spend an eternity cut off from those they love.  Even amongst the elves left on Middle Earth, there is some sadness - Elrond, for example, has seen the death of his brother Elros and has been separated for centuries, if not millenia, from his wife (who had to pass to the West after being poisoned; if she stayed in Middle Earth, she would die).  The sadness of such long - or in some cases final - separation, had to weigh heavily on the elven psyche, and probably explains why they kept to themselves... if all of your friends are elves, you at least get a chance to see your friends in the Undying Lands some day... if they are humans, once they are gone, you have no such chance.I am of a split mind, then, as to whether an elf allowing his soul to be destroyed by choosing to fight for Middle Earth rather than leave is "more" or "less" tragic than a human death.  On the one hand, such a death robs the elf of the ability to be with friends... and robs the friends of the elf with the ability to be with him.  On the other hand, such a death relieves the elf of all the memories of sadness and sorrow he has seen, as well as the burden of not being with those who have also died... because in non-existence, you need not be burdened with such things as you do not exist to contemplate them.At the end of the day, I think my decision is that it's no more or less tragic for an elf to die than a human... just different.  Some elves might welcome that final, ultimate respite that their death brings - a respite even humans cannot enjoy in death, as humans continue to live on and think and feel.  There is something to be said for that, I suppose.</blockquote>

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